NEW Opinions of the Shenandoah Circuit??
05-17-2005, 09:40 AM
#1
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NEW Opinions of the Shenandoah Circuit??
Last Friday NASA Mid-Atlantic held a one day "test day" at the Shenandoah Circuit. This was designed to give our Instructor corps a chance to navigate and hopefully figure out the circuit enough to carefully guide a Student through it in another month or so, at our June event.
Personally, I had a BLAST!!
The misconceptions of many may have given this track a "bad rap" - but the improvements pay out 10 fold since I drove it last December. I went on street tires/street brake pads and had the time of my life. The blacktop surface was GRIPPY as hell, to my disbelief and the run-off areas have been improved. They even removed some of the turns that were more of a PITA and still kept the "Pistol Grip" section fun and fast.
Just wondering, for those that have DRIVEN the track, has your opinion changed since you may have driven it last year or a previous event a few months ago when compared to the track configuration/condition lately??
I must say, listening to the armchair opinions of people who have NOT run the track is useless...it does NOTHING for the reputation that Summit Point and it's associated facilities have spent years acquiring.
Just curious, have you driven the track recently...if so, what is your opinion??
My vote is just about a two thumbs up...there are a few more issues to address, and if that occurs - the Shenandoah Circuit will get a two thumbs up from me. Regardless, I still had a blast last Friday.
Tony? John??
Personally, I had a BLAST!!
The misconceptions of many may have given this track a "bad rap" - but the improvements pay out 10 fold since I drove it last December. I went on street tires/street brake pads and had the time of my life. The blacktop surface was GRIPPY as hell, to my disbelief and the run-off areas have been improved. They even removed some of the turns that were more of a PITA and still kept the "Pistol Grip" section fun and fast.
Just wondering, for those that have DRIVEN the track, has your opinion changed since you may have driven it last year or a previous event a few months ago when compared to the track configuration/condition lately??
I must say, listening to the armchair opinions of people who have NOT run the track is useless...it does NOTHING for the reputation that Summit Point and it's associated facilities have spent years acquiring.
Just curious, have you driven the track recently...if so, what is your opinion??
My vote is just about a two thumbs up...there are a few more issues to address, and if that occurs - the Shenandoah Circuit will get a two thumbs up from me. Regardless, I still had a blast last Friday.
Tony? John??
05-17-2005, 10:53 AM
#2
Race Director
Jeff -
Thanks for the report. I plan on doing a DE at Shennandoah in the fall - looking foward to it!
Sorry I have no opinion about the track to offer yet.
-Z.
Thanks for the report. I plan on doing a DE at Shennandoah in the fall - looking foward to it!
Sorry I have no opinion about the track to offer yet.
-Z.
05-17-2005, 11:38 AM
#3
We did a full DE there last month and the general opinion was favorable to very good. Certainly I was pleasantly surprised... very technical .. lots of blind, decreasing radiius, and or off-camber stuff. Not sure I'd want to race on it... (come on, I'll race on anything...), but fun, challenging DE course for sure.
05-17-2005, 04:20 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Jeff:
Good write up. I drove it last fall for several hours in my dad's 964, and again for several sessions in a BSR Crown Vic in the rain. I am glad to hear that they addresses some of the safety concerns. It is a fun and challenging track and will be fun for DE. As it was last year, I said at the time I would not race on it in the 911 (Jeff can I drove your car??? since I have an FIA BE Superlicense). Maybe that opinion will change after driving it later this year.
Good write up. I drove it last fall for several hours in my dad's 964, and again for several sessions in a BSR Crown Vic in the rain. I am glad to hear that they addresses some of the safety concerns. It is a fun and challenging track and will be fun for DE. As it was last year, I said at the time I would not race on it in the 911 (Jeff can I drove your car??? since I have an FIA BE Superlicense). Maybe that opinion will change after driving it later this year.
05-17-2005, 04:43 PM
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Jeff,
Glad you had a good time on the SC, sorry I missed you guys... I've been on it for BSR for almost a year now and its come a long way.
Like you, I'm struck by the generally good impressions of those who have actually been on it vs. those who haven't... and while I'll grant there is a greater percentage of the track with close walls than say a Watkins or Mid-Ohio, those are but two examples of race circuits where a lack of run-off room doesn't generate near the criticism the SC does.
Glad you had a good time on the SC, sorry I missed you guys... I've been on it for BSR for almost a year now and its come a long way.
Like you, I'm struck by the generally good impressions of those who have actually been on it vs. those who haven't... and while I'll grant there is a greater percentage of the track with close walls than say a Watkins or Mid-Ohio, those are but two examples of race circuits where a lack of run-off room doesn't generate near the criticism the SC does.
05-17-2005, 09:38 PM
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How are they handling "traffic management" in the paddock during a DE? It seems like an awfully small area, and it would be difficult to handle many cars, especially if they arrive on trailers.
Do they limit the number of entrants for the Shenandoah compared to the main SP circuit?
Do they limit the number of entrants for the Shenandoah compared to the main SP circuit?
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05-17-2005, 10:44 PM
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Jeff,
I drove the track last year for a day with some other Riesentöter instructors. I had my doubts about it at that time. We drove it in both directions and a couple of different configurations. I didn't like the knuckles section. We settled on the counter clockwise direction for the first DE.
This year we had a three-day event and I had a ball.
The improvement to the track made a big difference! I was much better than I expected. Straightening out the knuckles was just what the doctor ordered. Moving the barriers back was a much-needed improvement.
In the counter clockwise direction I was following a GT3 over the hill on the bridge straight. Like most of us he was getting airborne over the hill but this time he was so far sideways I could read the numbers on the side of his car. He was able to catch it. If you go there remember to force yourself to hold the wheel perfectly straight going over the hill or it can get ugly on the other side. Their is some video going around of a WRX losing it on the other side of the and hill and crashing into the barrier.
Jeff, wait until you go there with at set of Hoosier on!
Renn 951, we had 95 people at this event and had plenty of parking room. You can park around the skid pad and inside it. The parking is bigger than at Jefferson circuit.
I drove the track last year for a day with some other Riesentöter instructors. I had my doubts about it at that time. We drove it in both directions and a couple of different configurations. I didn't like the knuckles section. We settled on the counter clockwise direction for the first DE.
This year we had a three-day event and I had a ball.
The improvement to the track made a big difference! I was much better than I expected. Straightening out the knuckles was just what the doctor ordered. Moving the barriers back was a much-needed improvement.
In the counter clockwise direction I was following a GT3 over the hill on the bridge straight. Like most of us he was getting airborne over the hill but this time he was so far sideways I could read the numbers on the side of his car. He was able to catch it. If you go there remember to force yourself to hold the wheel perfectly straight going over the hill or it can get ugly on the other side. Their is some video going around of a WRX losing it on the other side of the and hill and crashing into the barrier.
Jeff, wait until you go there with at set of Hoosier on!
Renn 951, we had 95 people at this event and had plenty of parking room. You can park around the skid pad and inside it. The parking is bigger than at Jefferson circuit.
05-18-2005, 02:29 AM
#10
TEst Day & Video
Jeff,
Just posted this on the local Porsche club boards, so here's the whole thing!
NASA was hosted for a test day on Friday by Bill Scott.
We had the track to ourselves, and a great BSR instructor/Spec Miata pilot with 13 days on the track to brief us on the line and the legend. This track has had more press than most, so it was a good opportunity to see and drive the track.
We ran two groups - around 18 racers from a number of NASA series, and an equal number of NASA HPDE instructors. The objective for the day was to evalauate the course for racing and for instructing.
CONFIGURATION
The track is designed to be re-configurable, and to be run in either direction. Several improvements to the layout have been made already, in response to feedback from groups that have run the track. More are planned, including some important ones that will be completed before the NASA event in early June.
- We ran counter-clockwise.
- The entire pit area was extended beyond the concrete pit walls [green marker]. This area is required for staging race and run groups that just would not fit in the area behind the wall.
- The track we used ran a short link [the Ram Site] which joins the short straight from the Loop Curve to the Cave Esses.
- The Range Esses, which form the finger part of the Pistol Grip, have been replaced by a new section of straight track running from track out of The Hook [white marker]
- We ran the track with and without the Karussel. No question about it, we will run with the Karussel for the June event.
There are a few bumpy patches which will be resurfaced shortly. These are mainly around the intersections of the main track and crossover tracks. They will be optimised for the confguration described above, which will smooth out a lot of the bumps.
Here's a short video One Lap Tour of the track as we ran it.
The track has you working full time! Changes of elevation, closely connected turn, and non-stop action. There is no time to relax - even the straights are short. The track is extremely technical - like MidOhio in many ways, but tighter and less flowing.
There are two classes of turns on the track - Very late apexes and veeeery late apexes. Nothing is earlier than very late.
The are a few blind sections, which will need to be carefully covered by flags. Drivers will need early warning if anyone gets into trouble out of their sight but in their immediate path. Good flagging will be critical in these areas.
I'm a lot more comfortable with the track now that I've driven it. We have a race scheduled for early June, and I'm in. De will be challenging, expecially for instructors. There is no time to rattle on, and students will be fully loaded. Short, clear direction is all there is time for! We will see how the NASA HPDE groups do in early June.
The NASA guys were convinced that Bill Scott is ready and willing to do anything we ask to improve the track. My take is that the track is in its early stages of development, and we are going to see some significant improvements ovr the next couple of seasons.
Just posted this on the local Porsche club boards, so here's the whole thing!
NASA was hosted for a test day on Friday by Bill Scott.
We had the track to ourselves, and a great BSR instructor/Spec Miata pilot with 13 days on the track to brief us on the line and the legend. This track has had more press than most, so it was a good opportunity to see and drive the track.
We ran two groups - around 18 racers from a number of NASA series, and an equal number of NASA HPDE instructors. The objective for the day was to evalauate the course for racing and for instructing.
CONFIGURATION
The track is designed to be re-configurable, and to be run in either direction. Several improvements to the layout have been made already, in response to feedback from groups that have run the track. More are planned, including some important ones that will be completed before the NASA event in early June.
- We ran counter-clockwise.
- The entire pit area was extended beyond the concrete pit walls [green marker]. This area is required for staging race and run groups that just would not fit in the area behind the wall.
- The track we used ran a short link [the Ram Site] which joins the short straight from the Loop Curve to the Cave Esses.
- The Range Esses, which form the finger part of the Pistol Grip, have been replaced by a new section of straight track running from track out of The Hook [white marker]
- We ran the track with and without the Karussel. No question about it, we will run with the Karussel for the June event.
There are a few bumpy patches which will be resurfaced shortly. These are mainly around the intersections of the main track and crossover tracks. They will be optimised for the confguration described above, which will smooth out a lot of the bumps.
Here's a short video One Lap Tour of the track as we ran it.
The track has you working full time! Changes of elevation, closely connected turn, and non-stop action. There is no time to relax - even the straights are short. The track is extremely technical - like MidOhio in many ways, but tighter and less flowing.
There are two classes of turns on the track - Very late apexes and veeeery late apexes. Nothing is earlier than very late.
The are a few blind sections, which will need to be carefully covered by flags. Drivers will need early warning if anyone gets into trouble out of their sight but in their immediate path. Good flagging will be critical in these areas.
I'm a lot more comfortable with the track now that I've driven it. We have a race scheduled for early June, and I'm in. De will be challenging, expecially for instructors. There is no time to rattle on, and students will be fully loaded. Short, clear direction is all there is time for! We will see how the NASA HPDE groups do in early June.
The NASA guys were convinced that Bill Scott is ready and willing to do anything we ask to improve the track. My take is that the track is in its early stages of development, and we are going to see some significant improvements ovr the next couple of seasons.
Last edited by APKhaos; 05-18-2005 at 11:24 AM.
05-18-2005, 09:14 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
Good feedback guys!
I'm happy to see that Tony has recovered from our "spirited drive" in which he dubbed it a "grudge match" - dunno why?
I'm also happy to see that others have made the same observations as myself...it's a fun place, it's a relatively safe place, when taken UNDER CONTROL, utilizing the skills we've learned with experience at other venues.
I'm happy to see that Tony has recovered from our "spirited drive" in which he dubbed it a "grudge match" - dunno why?
I'm also happy to see that others have made the same observations as myself...it's a fun place, it's a relatively safe place, when taken UNDER CONTROL, utilizing the skills we've learned with experience at other venues.
05-18-2005, 10:32 AM
#12
Originally Posted by Jeff Curtis
I'm happy to see that Tony has recovered from our "spirited drive" in which he dubbed it a "grudge match" - dunno why?
Next thing I know, we see Chris Corbetto's Spec E30 car ahead of us on track. Curtis goes to warp speed. Corbetto resonds. What followed was a terrific five laps of dicing. A bona fide grude match. It was interesting to see the relative strengths of Jeff's daily driver/track day 964 vs Chris' track prepared E30.
They were overall fairly equal, but better in different sections of the track. Chris insisted it was driver skill, but somehow Jeff wound up in front of the beemer, so I'l leave it at that
Last edited by APKhaos; 05-18-2005 at 10:59 AM.
05-18-2005, 11:13 AM
#13
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Thread Starter
Yup, it was a tough battle, a fully prepped race car shod with slicks, etc. and myself on street tires/pads...made for some harrowing turns! 
At one point, Tony exclaimed, "Seems I might be in the midst of a grudge match?? ...LET ME OUT!!"
He quickly rescinded his statement and agreed to stick it out...what a blast, and the PERFECT way to top off a day at the Shenandoah Circuit.
Thanks for the great writeup regarding the Instructor day...and of course, the wild ride.
At one point, Tony exclaimed, "Seems I might be in the midst of a grudge match?? ...LET ME OUT!!"
He quickly rescinded his statement and agreed to stick it out...what a blast, and the PERFECT way to top off a day at the Shenandoah Circuit.
Thanks for the great writeup regarding the Instructor day...and of course, the wild ride.
05-18-2005, 11:08 PM
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I was there last month also and the track is a blast. I was not sure what to expect since all I had to go on was a DVD made in 2004 by our instructors before the changes were made. It was well worth the trip to the track and I will be going back there 3 more times this year with 2 other regions. I agree with Kavo that there is plenty of parking in the infield. The space is a little spread out but there is plenty of room. They also have electric available throughout the infield for those who need "juice". It helps me power the kids DVD player so Shrek and Nemo can keep rolling.
05-19-2005, 11:25 AM
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Just returned from a DE day on Shen and I simply can not understand drivers who "won't" drive a new track because of what they have heard. Racing may be different, but Shen offers a DE'er an opportunity to try a demanding track that may warrant more skill and concentration than sheer horsepower. What is wrong with a challange? Sometimes you just have to work a little harder and drive a little slower. Just do not eat too much at lunch!
Great thanks to all DE instructors who can get in a student's car on this new track and relay this enthusiasm. Great thanks to all track chairs/registrars/clubs who offer the experience even though, right now, the events may be lightly attended. Speak well of the new or we'll be stuck at Pocono forever...
Great thanks to all DE instructors who can get in a student's car on this new track and relay this enthusiasm. Great thanks to all track chairs/registrars/clubs who offer the experience even though, right now, the events may be lightly attended. Speak well of the new or we'll be stuck at Pocono forever...