TD in DC

Some of you may be following this newbie's dive into the DE addiction. In case you haven't, here is a link to my post about VIR, which was my third event.

https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/195816-track-video-from-vir.html

Last weekend I went to my fourth event, which was held at Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course. What a blast! I even got a point by from a 996TT

Nando was my instructor for my first run on the first day, and then Starla Phelps took over. Both were great, and feel that I learned a lot over the weekend. Art Parsons was teasing me a little on Saturday night because I had yet to take a solo run, and I told him it was because my passenger was too enjoyable.

I haven't processed all of the video yet, but here is a little clip from my last solo run in Green before I was promoted to Blue (Pete Kaufmann was my evaluator). Not the smoothest lap, but not too bad. As always, I am open to constructive criticism. I know this grasshopper has much to learn.

As always, right click save as . . .

http://members.rennlist.com/tdindc/Mid-Ohio.wmv

TD in DC

TT Surgeon

Nice and smoothe, the speed will come! See you at the glen!

ZBlue996Kam

TD:

Great driving for a beginner.

Kam

LVDell

Once again, great video Todd! I will be out a Las Vegas Motor Speedway (2.4M Road Course) this weekend so I will have video on Sunday posted.

Cheers,
Dell

Greg Fishman

Todd,
For the most part your line is good. I don't care for your line from turn2 to the entrance of the 180 though. Also you got to quit doing the shuffle steering so much, if you were really on the limit at the exit of the keyhole (onto the back straight) and the back end is coming around you may not be able to catch it if your hands are all over the place. I am surprised your instructor didn't point this out to you.
Watch this video next to yours and look at how he takes the turn off the back straight and where the car ends up. Also his line from t2 to the back straight.

http://www.midohio.com/school/media/MidOhioLap_500.wmv

sweanders

I don't know the track but you might want to try and avoid the abuse understeer going into some of the turns. Then you won't have to wait as long for grip and put less heat into the front tires.

Benton

Shuffle steering REALLY makes me nervous. I don't think I could ride with someone that shuffle-steers. Maybe some great drivers do it (I don't know), but think about it. If you are shuffling while the car is on the limit, you won't be able to recover quick enough on the REAL limit. Obviously, that doesn't matter now, but it will later.

I know this is on a completely differenly level, but think about F1 drivers. Their hands are GLUED to the steering wheel. If they shuffled, they would be in the wall or gravel trap at the snap of a finger. There really are only a few, if any times, when shuffling the hands is necessary. How many tracks have corners where you turn the wheel over 180 degrees?

TD in DC

Thanks for the tips so far. With respect to shuffle steering, if you watch the video, you will see that I am NOT shuffle steering through most of the turns. In fact, the only turns where I do shuffle steer is where the steering wheel is turned 135 degrees or more.

T1 through T4 = No shuffle
T5 (Keyhole) = more than 135 degree turn of the steering wheel, so I repositioned my hands to keep them at 9 and 3
T6 = no shuffle
T7 (turn at the end of the straight) = more than 135 degree turn of the steering wheel, so I repositioned my hands
T8 = more than 135 degree turn of the steering wheel, so I repositioned my hands
T9 = nearly 180 degree turn of the steering wheel, so I repositioned my hands
T10, T10a, T11, T12, & T13 = no shuffle
T14 (carrousel) = more than 135 degree turn of the wheel, so I repositioned my hands.
T15 = no shuffle

I am not very comfortable keeping my hands glued to the wheel when I have to turn it much more than 100 degrees. Other than that, you might see my hands move slightly, but that is as much to ensure that I am not using the newbie deathgrip on the steering wheel than anything (I am also trying to use a light touch on the shifter).

For what it's worth, on the very first day I was told by Nando to move my hands, and that I was keeping them too glued to the wheel in the turns I identified above. When Starla expanded that advice, I asked her about shuffle steering, and explained that I hear completely different advice from different instructors on this topic. Her reply was that you do not need to shuffle steer all the time, but you DO need to move your hands when your steering wheel needs to rotate over a certain amount, which is what I was trying to do. I would have been completely wrapped up if I had kept my hands glued to the steering wheel where it must turn 135 degrees or more.

It may be that I will not have to turn the wheel so much when I go faster, in which case I will not have to turn the steering wheel as much.

Sweanders, what do you mean by abuse understeer? I am using street tires (not even R compounds) so they are pretty talkative any time I take a corner at speed. Also, Mid-Ohio has a number of off-camber and elevation changes that do weird, but fun, things to direction changes.

Again thanks to all for the input.

sweanders

It is typical when you have a car that is balanced with a bit of understeer (like most street cars) and go into a turn to fast. What typically happens when somone uses it is that they turn the wheel going into the corner and get pre-apex understeer and turn even more to get closer to the apex which scrubs off speed and heats up the tires.

Abuse understeer is not something you did very much but if you get used to driving like that you will have big troubles when starting to go really fast.
So dial out the understeer of the car or simply adjust your entry speeds to avoid understeer. In slower turns you can do a quick throttle lift and get back before turning in to transfer weight and make sure that the tires bite while pointing straight.

This is something that I practise a lot since it gives better control through and higher speed out of the turn. I am one of those guys who typically dive to fast into a turn and get understeer. Not as much now as a couple of years ago though. It will feel wierd slowing down enough to not get understeer but you will enjoy the launch out of the turns.



Edit: Watched the video again and I might get fooled by all the tire sounds. If you are driving as well as this it would probably make sense to get R-compounds.

TD in DC

Sweanders,

Thanks for the explanation. If I can paraphrase what you are saying, I would say "slow in, fast out." Also, I think you are referring to the fact that I occasionally still pinch the wheel when I have misjudged the proper turn it. Yeah, I am guilty of that. I try to set the wheel, and when I do miss it I sometimes subconsciously try to "correct" the mistake. I can certainly understand how that will cause problems when speeds increase.

I dialed a lot of the stock understeer out when I changed my suspension to PSS9s and GT3 adjustable swaybars.

Thanks,

TD in DC

Greg Fishman

Todd,
I don't want to get way off track but I disagree with you very much in your assesement. You are gripping and regripping the steering wheel constantly and in corners where you don't need more than 90 degrees (1/4 turn) of steering input. Watch the video below and tell me how many times Cort Wagner does what you are doing. Granted this track does not have the tighter corners that mid ohio does he is not shuffle steering in corners where you would be.

willow springs video
You may not need to do what he does (you aren't at the limit of your car all the time) but you should not be moving your hands around to cover up for bad technique (too tight of a grip on the wheel).

sweanders

"Slow in - fast out" isn't the whole deal here. You can in most situation go as fast or faster if you get your fronts to grip before turning in. Get weight transfer forward and turn in just when the transfer stops. It is not only about having the correct speed into the turn but the timing of turn-in and the buildup of speed while pre-apex. Once you hit the apex and have enough space it doesn't matter much but if you are trapped understeering while hitting the apex you are not building speed as well as possible.

TD in DC

I think I understand better now. I need to work on weight management (in more ways than one) and smoothing my entry into corners. Makes sense. I had just started on working with timed lifts fo the throttle to transfer the weight to the front wheels when I ran out of weekend. That makes sense.

Thanks.

TD in DC

Greg,

You are not taking this off track at all. I hear you. I definately need to continue to work on making my hands even quieter. As a newbie, I sometimes feel like I can't walk and chew gum at the same time. What I hear you and others saying is that my hands should be very quiet, but that when I need to move them for tight corners, my movements should be controlled and consistent. Makes sense.

The thing I am trying to remember is that, even though I am in complete control now and I am not driving beyond my means, the little mistakes that do not cause me problems will cause problems once I start driving even faster. I had better learn now before I develop bad habits. Sounds like some good things to focus on for event number five, which will be Summit Point again or Watkins Glen.

Thanks to all for the input.

TD in DC

Greg Fishman

Confucius say:
Yes grasshopper, you learn droving just fine. Faster you get, more perfect you must be, small margin for errors. Crashing is no fun.