hinchcliffe

I was signed off after my third track day. Did my first DE two years ago, the instructor said I did well. Went to my second DE the next year and was signed off on my last session so the second day was Solo. Heading to my third DE in as many years and I assume I'll have an instructor. If not I'll be asking for a few to ride with me anyway. The more info the better, right?

So how long before you were signed off for solo runs?

M758

Well,
Honestly ....1/2 a day... 2 - 20 min sessions then free and on my own ever since. It was not with PCA however. When start running with PCA I had enough track time and did not have an instructor.

Now that I am PCA instructor I never have never signed off anyone brand spanking new on the first day. Often by the end of the day we are just working on consistancy and being able to "feel" when you did not do it right.

I have given free reign to lightly experience folks new to a particular track after a session or two.

I have also instructed "Signed off" folks wanting to get more from themselves and their car.

OriginalSterm

I've been signed off at all three events I've done so far. Twice at Watkins Glen (TracQuest and PDA) and once at BeaveRun (Mid Ohio PCA). Second day for both I was given the green light to head out on my own. I plan to continue asking for instructors (at least to start) for at least half of this season and see how it goes. I really want to keep my ego in check and start learning some slightly more advanced techniques.

mitch236

Third event as well, which leads me to post another topic..........

Lemming

Too soon in my opinion (3rd day as well). Although I was "safe and courteous", I still had a lot to learn and still do. Although I run solo with all the clubs that I currently attend DE's with, I often try to grab an experienced instructor or racer to learn as much as I can from.

Bob Rouleau

Hinch - I assume you were at different tracks or, went with different organizations. In PCA, once you are signed off, you are signed off. You may (and if you are smart) ask for a check ride with an instructor at track unfamiliar to you or, for advaned instruction (a very smart thing to do especially after you've gotten a little seat time on your own).

In two weeks time I'll be giving a speech to a group of PCA instructors and part of it will focus on "No More One Event Wonders". Last season we had a few of these and, not surprisingly, it's the same instructors who seem to specialize in fast sign-offs. Either they have had amazing luck and been given Schumi type students or, they are getting a driver to the point of being safe and stopping. Sometimes, it's pressure from the student that forces the issue. Some perceive Sign-Off as some sort of goal to be achieved in the fewest possible sessions. Better by far is to stick with an instructor and get him/her to teach you more advanced techniques instead of simply certifying that you are safe to drive in the lowest run group - which in PCA is what Sign Off means.

Best,

BBailey

Started out with PCA - signed off to solo after 2 sessions on Saturday for the balance of the day, and then again after a single session on Sunday for the balance of the day with a stern warning to "not embarrass my instructor by doing anything differently than I had all weekend". Signed off for the weekend after 2 sessions at my 2nd event. At my 3rd event was told by my instructor that "there was nothing else I can teach you" (which I doubt was true but was said nonetheless) and she put me into a car with a friend of hers who raced with SCCA. One session out with him and his quote was "you did things in the car that I still have trouble doing".

Don't get caught up in trying to guage your progress by how fast you are going and how quickly you are signed off to solo versus others. Some pick this stuff up faster than others, some take more time. Some have natural ability, some need to learn the skills to go fast on a track. Some have previous experience that lends towards a very steep learning curve on track, some have only driven street cars as a means of transportation all their lives. Everyone is different.

Fact is, even after I was signed off to solo and had started instructing, I still sought out additional instruction with my driving and to this day I don't hesitate to ask advice of those more experienced on a given track (or those faster than me) to help me out.

Brian

BrokeAss

I don't want to get too far off topic, but as registrar for our region, I take a few extra precautions with newly signed off students. If I see a recently solo'ed guy that has NO PRIOR EXPERIENCE at this track, I put him in the student group anyway. If his ego can withstand being put back into a student group, he'll be a lot safer taking the advice of an experienced instructor. If he's CONSISTENTLY driving a nice line and the instructors comfortable with him, we can move him into the solo group again.

Like Bob, I'm *very* skeptical of one-event-wonders. I'd rather err on the side of caution.

MikeQuig

In Rocky Mountain PCA events, we may sign a student off a little early now and then, but I'll usually sit in the stands and watch how he/she does without me in the car. Almost with exception they need much more help, but I feel that giving them a little rope often brings them back looking for an instructor to get back in the car with them. Showing confidence in your student builds their trust and invests them in "doing it right" even if they really still don't know what "it" is.

On new tracks, everyone even instructors who have not driven that track are required to take an instructor with them first time out. In fact, RMR also requires that the instructor drive the student's car. You should have seen the crush of bodies lining up to school the new guy with the GT2 last year at La Junta.

Mike Quigley
911 SC Euro "F" class

APKhaos

PCA DE program, moved up to Blue after 2.5 days in Green. Meaningless data, actually. The time to progress is not a good guide, because early progression has as much to do with safety, judgement, attitude, preparation, procedures, and the like than driving skill.

This is my fifth season. I still take an instructor out at every DE event, and I learn something every time. Forget about solo. Take best advantage of the instructors at your events. FInd out who you click with, and get 'em in your car. You will progress faster this way than spending time running solo laps.

Bob Rouleau

Mike - FWIW, I have banned "trial sign-offs" in our region. Previously, some instructors would send a driver out solo and "see how he/she" did. As far as I'm concerned, it's like being pregnant. Either a driver is safe to solo or not. there is no "in-between". I want instructors to accept the responsibility for training safe and competent drivers. Same goes for "second opinions". I bet you get asked "would you go out with ------------ and tell me what you think?"

Why should I do that? If s/he is good enough in your opinion why do you need me. If not, why are you even asking?

I understand what you're doing but our experience with the technique has not been a good one. Must be the altitude!

Best,

TheOtherEric

Wow, I don't get this thread. This is my 3rd year of DE's with Chicago Region, Western Michigan, Central Indiana, and Northern Ohio (and more) and AFAIK none of these regions has an official "Sign off". You chose what class you want, and thus whether or not you get an instructor. So it's up to the student's discretion. The rule that most of us (I believe) use is to ask for an instructor your 1st time at a given track. But still, it's at the student's discretion. Then the student and instructor jointly decide when the student should solo that weekend. This system seems to work well for us.

Mike K.

Eight days, and I had two of the best instructors they had. Oh well, practice practice, practice.

RedlineMan

Yep;

I'm in the too early crowd I'd imagine. 8-10 days I'd figure. Of course I had a lot of natural afinity for this stuff. Of course I had the right attitude. Of course I had outstanding instructors. However, I have realized over the years that the learning stops - or at least slows dramatically - when one goes solo. So it's taken me years to get this accomplished. Since the idea is to learn, can your ego and get a passenger that can teach you something.

I suppose I am rather draconian as an instructor. I hardly ever sign anyone off. They are usually intermediates that have a good grasp of the fundamentals already. Most of the time the students are not even seemingly interested in soloing. Perhaps I have been lucky and gotten the learners, not the egos. They want to continue working togehter. Good instruction!

In fact, as I now recall, I myself was kicked in the teeth, showing up expecting to be solo and not being totally devoid of pridefulness. Didn't learn a damn thing from the guy either, he just sat there for 2 days. Also realized later that it didn't really matter that I was assigned. No biggie!

Speaking of first time at a track..... Bob. I'll be seeing you in early July. Care to save some time for an old friend in his first drive at Tremblant? I think I can handle being Rouleau'd

Bob Rouleau

John = happy to see you and show you all the local tricks. Professional courtesy demands it

Regards