Anir

Sweanders,

With all due respect, you're looking at the safety issue the wrong way. Of course, weight is important, but during rapid deceleration, the lightest open face helmet will provide plenty of mass to cause potentially fatal neck or brain contracoup injury. That's why a Hans or similar device is important. Facial protection is equally important, to prevent more than a "busted face".

One doesn't have to make an "either / or" choice.

Geo

Oh yeah, another good reason for getting a full-face is you cannot use a HANS or any other head and neck restraint with an open-face helmet.

Bull

My experience is that when a new standard comes forth, '05 in this case, and the helmets become available, the 5 year old rated helmets, or '00 rating, drop significantly in price. I get about 5 years out of a helmet, given that I use them a lot and sweat like a rented mule. The cost per year is close to equal given the discounts.

TedA

It's your HEAD!

Bull

Very GOOD! Which is why I would only use an approved helmet.....some are approved for 5 years and some for 10 years.

Geo

I can't even believe we are having such a conversation. Falsifying a Snell sticker would get you a healthy suspension and/or fine in any organization if not outright kicked out. I'd vote for kicked out.

Unfortunately such Darwinism can have dire consequences for the sport if the idiot gets killed, especially if the family of the moron were to find out what he did. Nobody in the sport should accept anyone doing such a thing.

ltc

I was under the impression that even without a helmet (merely for the sake of this discussion....or let's say a zero weight helmet), that a basilar skull fracture will likely occur in an impact simply due to head mass/geometry/momentum.

JBH

It has the largest opening and at $250, it is reasonably priced for someone just starting out in DE

Anir

Lewis,

You're absolutely right. The mass of the head is enough as it is. Any helmet worsens the situation, but I don't think anyone would argue that a helmet is not important.

Funny thing about life....you solve one problem only to exacerbate another. Hence the HANS device.

Another potential casualty of rapid decel injuries is an aortic tear. To my knowledge, they have not devised a sure-fire way to prevent that.

John Veninger

Dont' think it's been mentioned, but most events have a few loaner helmets. Borrow one if you can and see if you intend to continue to go to the track.
If you buy one, full face!

Mike S.

Several years ago, I recall seeing a fair number of WRC (pro rally) drivers wearing open faced helmets. I'm not sure if this is still the case today, but perhaps someone out there (Geo?) knows why they made this selection and of course why it was (still is?) allowed.

Mike

ceboyd

I've been using an open face because of my glasses (this way I can put it on and take it off without moving my glasses).. BUT my other half has talked me into getting a full faced now that we are getting faster.... (grumble grumble).. I know I know.. it is better/safer... but it'll be a PITA having to squish my glasses on every time!

Geo

Mike, the only reasons I can think of for WRC drivers to wear open face helmets is to facilitate in-car communication and for TV video. Not the greatest reasons I must say. You can still have helmet to helmet electronic communication and you can even record that on video. Sadly it will probably take a facial injury to change this.

RJay

My apologies, you are correct, I had the story backwards. We had the NER Ground School at HMS yesterday and I had a chance to speak with Joe Marko about this. The story is that a driver broke his jaw in an accident at an event (SCCA I believe)wearing a full-faced helmet. The driver blamed this on the helmet. Joe commissioned a study with Delphi (makers of airbags) and the results were esstentially inconclusive. I failed to ask him if they were only concerned with frontal impact, so I have no idea if side curtains pose a different set of problems. Basically, there were problems wearing either type of helmet in a crash in which the airbag deploys. Beyond the jaw issue, with an openface the airbag essentially attemtps to lift the helmet off the head of the wearer. If the straps are not fully secure this can be a big problem. Anyhoo, net/net, airbags simply aren't designed to work with people wearing helmets. So what are you to do?

Note to lawyers what follows is a list of possibilities, not a list of recommendations:

1) Don't wear a helmet in an airbag equipped car.
2) Don't drive on the track in a car with an airbag.
3) Turn the airbag off on-track
4) Take a sledge hammer to your front bumper and pre-deploy it prior to any on-track activities
5) Don't crash

Choice is up to you. I'm at option 2. I have a dedicated track car, I wear a full face helmet, I'm doing an awful lot of safety upgrades this winter. Adding an air bag isn't one of them.

Mike S.

Geo,

Sad, but true. Thanks for your thoughts.

I'm gonna have to lecture open face helmeted Markus Grönholm next time I see him

Mike