GUMBALL

You sold a race motor, as is, and explained the history. You have no further obligation.
Another point, how do you know that it has not already been run by the buyer?

Bull

Exactly! He bought it, he owns it, now he wants to be a "victim"...with "victim's relief"!

Given this situation, three months later, I would never call the seller..... Because I would expect one of two things to exist:

1. He told me all he knows about the engine and sold it "as is" (otherwise there would be a document indicating the terms of the deal).

2. He didn't tell me everything he knows about the engine, considers that he "got me", and won't tell me anything more now.

If you "trust him", why call? You have all he knows already.

If you don't "trust him", why call?

eimc

FYI this is the tech who installed the 3.2 race mod. engine into the 1977 911. First of all it was 2 months (looking at cancelled check dated Nov. 20 2004) since the engine was bought. The engine arrived at my shop the same day it was picked up . I started the install shortly after Christmas as we are a shop that specializes in and works only on PORSCHE VW & AUDI at this location for 25years and have a large cust. base. I installed the exhaust , tin work etc. Then installed the engine &trans in the car .(cocktail tibit - Clutch disc on the engine was blown apart as in all the friction material was off the disc and laying and stuck in pressure plate . To make a long story short i connected the engine (and by the way we have factory oil line plugs not rags that we use on the oil lines) filled with oil etc. and started the engine. Checked oil pressure , oil quanity etc. Pressure was good at first but began to drop a little (to 20lbs) as a noise began off idle at about 1500rpm. Having some experince with porsche engines(only about 35years ) (factory Porsche trained since 1970) the noise could be bad chain tensioner or connecting rod knock. Replaced chain tensioners starter engine same noise. Drained oil sample to find m metal shavings. So for all you voting on what to do you now have the complete story. The car is now sitting in my shop waiting for what to do with it . Trailer car to shop thatbuilt engine for positive id that it is indeed the same engine(to end any rumers of trying to return anther engine) Thats my story thanks for listening

eimc

PS By the way I was just wondering if you had a front mounted oil cooler on your914-6? When you hit the wall before you flipped the car over they said it ripped the battery out of the car , disconnecting the battery cable and the car stopped running. The car should not have stopped because of the battery , the alt. would keep the car running. Also would it be possible it damaged or ripped off the front oil cooler losing oil, thus cutting off oil to engine? If you wish to discuss this I can be reached at 717 238-1810. thanks

jgrant

Thanks for the extra info, but in my opinion, I still think that the engine was sold without warranty of any kind; as is. It would have been up to the buyer to negotiate something to protect themselves from something like this.

It's a ****ty situation for the buyer, but that's the situation he put himself into.

This is also assuming that the info we've been provided is accurate, with respect to disclosure, terms, etc.

$0.02 CDN

Rich Sandor

Buyer Beware!

Send him the link to thris thread and see what he has to say.

eimc

Iam presuming most of you responding to this posting have experience with Porsche engines(servicing rebuilding etc.). To the best of my knowledge a leakdown test willnot indicate a rod knock. You have to look at it from the buyers view. It takes days for the seller to respond , comes up with accusations of shop does not know what there doing , seller doesnt know what cams are in car , says cam timing is stock (on a race engine?) , says maybe they left a rag in the oil line? doesn understand what a rod knock is? Afer all these excuses things are starting to sound a little strange.Next thing you know hes on this form polling what to do. The seller says hes never heard of the shop doing the work -the buyer has never heard of the shop that built the engine. I think they both have to meet face to face -take the car to the sellers tech to get id on the engine and go to the shop that has the engine now. You can say theres no wartranty on a race engine but on the other hand how would feel when you start it up for the first time and it knocks. Then again after the rollover would you not get the engine running to make sure it was ok(thats just good bussiness that would have avoided this mess) I hope they come to some agreement to avoid bad reputations on either side.

jgrant

Unfortunately, it seems to be a little late for the buyer to be thinking like a buyer. Yeah, it sucks that there are problems with the engine. But who buys a USED race engine from a wrecked car without thinking about what the potential issues could be, and then protecting themselves from those issues?

For that matter, the sellor should have ensured that it was clearly an "as-is" sale.

For sure. In the end, it's a tough way to learn a lesson.

eimc

I guest it all boiled down to a matter of trust. he never had a bad experience buying from other porsche owners, but theres a first time for for everything.

jgrant

I don't see as there was any trust that's been broken. Were there any implied warrantees with the sale? Did he say it was a fully functioning motor, with no problems? As far as I can see from the thread, there were no statements as to the actual running condition of the engine, short or long term.

I'm just sorry that they both feel that they're getting shafted by each other. It seems to me that the buyer has some unrealistic expectations when he purchased the engine as is.

$0.02

eimc

Not a matter of trust? THE SELLER STILL CLAIMES ITS A GOOD RUNNING ENGINE!!! You build good bussiness on trust which leads to a good reputation. The seller wont do anything for him. Did the seller say hey this engine might be junk ? No he sold it as a good engine. You build a bussiness on that and your not in bussiness for long.

jgrant

The sellor says: "Asks if I ever ran the engine after the crash (which I didn't)."

So how does he claim that it's a "good running engine"... unless there's something that's being misrepresented or left out by the post here. Nowhere does it say that he claimed that it was in good running order, etc.; just that he rolled the car and is now selling the engine.

eimc

Go to 914club.com ,then go to race parts for sale and you will find the ad for the engine. By reading the ad would you think its a good running engine? Does it indicate anywhere there might be damage to this engine.

38D

Actually he gave me the first deposit on the Nov 11th. The 20th was the delivery date when he gave me the rest of the $s.


Not sure where the buyer got that from, since I never said nor implied that would be the case.


Yes, I had a front mounted cooler. Somehow it survived, and was pushed more up back into the frame.


Here's the impact on video (and yes, it hurt!).


Amazingly, the cooler barely had a mark on it. Everything else was smashed around it, but somehow it survived. When I disassembled the car, there was still oil in the cooler lines, oil in the tank, and oil in the engine (in fact, there's now oil all over my garage floor, since I didn't have a pan under the car when I first disconnected the lines).


He emailed me late on 1/26. I called him on Friday morning at ~10am. I lost the signal on my cell (was in the car) and called him back...got his voicemail. I told him I was going to consult some sources to determine what to do. I emailed him on Monday 1/31.


Yes, I did say it was possible the shop made a mistake. I talked to some other mechanics, and there were several suggested causes. We are all human, and people make mistakes, so it was/is possible.


I told him that I never paid to have them replaced, so I assumed they were stock Carerra cams.


I told him (and I quote from the email I sent to him on 1/25) "I think the cam timing should be stock, as I don't remember installing new cams (you could check the invoice I gave you to see)." My understanding is that if the cams are stock, then the timing is stock.


Was suggested to me as a possible cause.


Sorry, but I'm not a trained mechanic. I went to Jerry Woods' engine class, but that's about it. I know basic stuff.


I started this thread on 1/28 to get others opinions. There are several people here whose opinions I trust and respect. I basically wanted to see if others had a different view of the situation. I attempted to present everything in a factual manner, so as not to skew the results.


Fair enough.


I'm not a business. I'm an individual who sold an engine. I don’t own a shop, work at one or have any access to one (other than I can pay a labor rate like anyone else ). To have a shop install, test run, and uninstall would have cost me big $s (and having just lost $25-30k in the crash, I didn't/don't exactly have any extra funds).


Me too. I certainly don't plan on defaming the buyer in any way (didn't use his name in this poll, didn't give any location specific information, didn't say which shop he was using...).

38D

I told him that I crashed and rolled the car. The ad on 914club is titled "Parting out my Race Car"...um, why else do you part out a race car? The guy who bought the trans was there the same day the buyer picked up the engine (was a friend of his). I had broken off the ears on the trans, which I explained was from when the tow truck flipped the car back over (as explained to me by the tow truck driver). When the seller asked if it was a "strong engine" I replied "I was when I went into the wall". He knew full well I had been in an accident and flipped. The engine was working fine until I hit the wall. The only suggestion that I have heard is that I could have run out of oil while upside down. You've now seen the video and know the car stopped running.

Everyone who has bought a single part off my car knows what I did to my car at Lime Rock. To suggest anything else is just untrue.