NetManiac

OK, even though I do not have a big "X" on my car at PCA races anymore I'm still very much a rookie. I just completed my first official race with POC after receiving my license back in April. I have 4 more to complete with my red dot (their version of the big "X"). Then I'm officially out of rookie status with both clubs.

This past weekend I was one of the backmarkers. So I was getting lapped (by cars in MY class mind you!). Most of my confusion stems from how to deal with this and what is appropriate for (or expected of) a slower car to be doing when being overtaken.

Early in the weekend I got "talked to" by one of the faster drivers about moving over unexpectedly. If I recalled the incident correctly I was trying to stay out of his way while at the same time keep myself from being in the wrong spot for the next corner. As I understand it, I am suppose to "drive my line."

Q) If "my" line goes from the left side of the track to the right side, do I still drive it, or do I stay to the left until the faster car/s is/are by me?

Along those lines, I noticed that the faster cars do not seem to use all of the track (i.e. do not track out all the way to the edge of the pavement in some corners).

Q) So do I attempt to anticipate what they might think is the line, or do I really drive MY line?

Q) How can they know how far out I will go if they themselves do not track all the way out?

I understand that if I track out and they are there when I get there it might be mostly their fault, but I would like to avoid the incident in the first place.

During both races there was a car in front of me that I was trying to catch (and could have) and a guy close enough that could have caught me (and did). So basically I had my own race to run. But so also did the front runners. In cases like this, when I'm not racing someone, I like to stay off the apex by a cars width, track all the way out and stay there until I absolutely have to get over. But when I am racing, I need that apex, and/or the full track to keep my speed up.

Q) Am I expected to give the faster car room to get by as soon as they come up on me so they don't have to slow, lifting (or even braking) myself to keep from messing up their race? Or is it appropriate to drive through a section of track using it all, and then give them a opportunity to get by when it will not be so damaging to my race?

As an example. I was racing a 944 all race. There are some S curves right after a hard 180 degree increasing radius turn. The straight following the S curves was just short enough that if I gave up any speed in the esses the 944 could get past me, and I would not have enough room to power back by him. So as I'm approaching the 180 I see 2 or 3 faster cars coming up on us. Not close enough to get by me coming out the 180, but close enough that I will slow them considerably going through the esses. As I needed all the speed I could get through the esses I said "Screw you, I'm keeping the line you can get by me after the esses!"

Q) Was that appropriate, or was that bad etiquette?

Q) How close does my competitor have to be in order to be considered a "race"? On my bumper? A car length or two? If I can see him/her in my mirror and know he/she can catch me?

In both clubs that I race with I hear whispers "watch out for that guy, he'll turn into you with out warning..." Not the sort of reputation I'm looking for. I'd rather give up position or two and have "gentleman racer" sort of reputation, which is why I'd like to understand proper club racing etiquette.

Juan Lopez

When I started on this game, Vic Elford told me: "passing is the responsibility of the passer. drive your line and let the passer worry about it. never put yourself at harms by trying to let the car passing you go by".

Whilst very true, you don't want to be an obstacle. IMHO Its a balance act plus you don't want to slow down for the benefit of the others, if they are faster than you they can pass you. Every situation is different...

Greg Fishman

Juan pretty much summed it up. Also found that when getting passed by the fast guys it is easier and quicker for you to brake just a bit more or a bit earlier and let them pass you at the begining of the turn vs. in the middle of the turn. To some degree you have control over where you want the faster guy to pass you.

Experience will help a lot but in general you should just drive the line. The quick guys will find a way around you.

ngoldrich

Mike,

The questions you ask are good ones. In the end, no matter what your level of skill is and how fast your car is, we all have to deal with the issue of being overtaken. I have been on both ends of the extreme. I have been in a pole qualifying car and just had to worry about making safe passes, and I have also been in Grand-Am & ALMS in slow cars in all different classes where I would get passed a lot.

Juan makes a good point. There is a balance. IMO the most critical point is do not make any sudden changes. If you drive a normal race line, the car coming up behind you will know what to expect (relatively).

If the passing car is a lot faster, it will get by you. It is a balance between not destroying your race within a race and holding up the passing car. Typically you may stay a little wide or late on a turn to let them by. The important thing is you always need to be aware. of what is happening simultaneously on both side and in front of you. That will come with seat time and experience.

In turns like highspeed esses I would not recommmend pulling off line, keep your line and they will get by you when it is safe.

Hope this helps a bit. The fact that your asking these questions is a good sign that you want to learn and improve.

Good luck, be safe, and have fun!

Plenty of others on this board can give you even more helpful info...

Norm

ngoldrich

Greg,

Good points..

Norm

RedlineMan

Hey Guys;

Rule #1 - Don't do anything that someone might not anticpate. That pretty much means drive "the line" and let the passer worry about how to get by you. Moving drastically and suddenly offline will not be something anyone will anticipate.

If the opportunity exists to move offline in a manner that does not compromise your race, then do so, even if it means backing off a tad. If it jeopardizes your race or your speed or safety through a corner or complex, screw 'em. You will do no one any favors by losing it in front of them.

It does not hurt at all if you signal people where to pass, just like in DE. If someone is trying to force their way by on one side or the other, give it to them ONLY if it does not put you way off line and in jeopardy of going off yourself. If they are making an ill-advised move, and you can avoid them without wrecking yourself, let them have it. If not, $hit-can them and hope they stuff. They probably deserve it!

You may not always make friends by staying on line, but making friends is secondary to being consistent and easy to anticipate. Anyone who faults you for that - or for not completely getting on your knees to let them by - has an ego problem and is not worth worrying about.

NetManiac

OK, thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it. The rules for both clubs state what Jaun said: It is the responsibility of the passing car to overtake safely. However, like many other things there are the rules and then there's etiquette (i.e. I don't think there's a rule about using all caps in the English language, but it's common netiquette that this is yelling).

I think this is the situation where I got "talked to" this past weekend. I was driving my line, but it appeared to the overtaking car as an "abrupt" move. I was coming off a fast right-hand sweeper which required some track out room, going into a flat-out left-hander. Both very fast corners with very little room between the two for transitioning from one side of the track to the other.

I'd really like to hear you opinions on this subject. Is there a rule-of-thumb here? Or is it just if it's a race to me, it's a race period?

NetManiac

That's a very good point John. In my attempt to be "good" track citizen I might be trying to hard to not be in other peoples way.

Also, the "point-by" point you made is a good one also. At the beginning of the weekend I wasn't pointing as I thought it was obvious where to pass. But as the weekend progressed I started pointing more (when/where I could) and I think it smoothed things out a bit more.

ca993twin

"Point-bys" are the single most important thing you can do to make passing safer. It takes all the uncertainty out of when and where (which side) you are prepared to let them by. It lets them know you see them coming, and they needn't try anything stupid. A nice "point-by" deserves a response "thank you" wave as well.

NetManiac

I agree Steve. I didn't mean to imply that I didn't point at all (even though that is what I said ). It's just different than what I was used to. In a DE environment you point coming onto the straight. Maybe, if you feel comfortable, while your unwinding the wheel coming out of the corner.

But in a race environment, it is more difficult as I was being overtaken in the middle of the sweeper, a (bumpy) braking zone, a transition area between two corners, etc. These are areas that I never before had to worry about pointing other cars by. But the world as I knew it is gone .

Tom W

Steve: There are no point-bys in a race as the window net prevents it.

APKhaos

Mike,
Great advice all round here, especially on the point by. It helps everyone if the guy preparing to pass knows that the car ahead is aware of him and 'participating' in safely getting the pass made.

One thing not mentioned so far [unless I missed it] is that drivers dicing at the front of the pack will often use slower traffic as a 'pick' to gain an advantage on the competitor on their tail. The object of the game is to take a late pass on the slower car at a point where its likely that the guy following will be held up before the next passing opportunity. When well executed, the 'pick' may not even know what's happened. When badly executed, it can be dangerous.

We had a couple of cars running in a different series but in the same race group. They were the fastest cars on teh track, so in every race there were quite a few slower cars passed by three or more cars battling for position. It caused some serious trouble, to the point where these guys were moved into another race group. Something to be aware of.

JBH

It seems the driver's meeting would be a good time to raise these questions. I guarantee you would not be the only one wondering. Having all drivers here the same response should help put everyone on the same page.

Mike in Chi

Tom

I have room in front of the net to get my hand out for point bys. Much to my chagrin, I get to check the clearance all too frequently.

Good explanation about the pick, Tony. Mike, also with a little experience, you'll learn how to use the fast guys for your own race.

ca993twin

Tom,

When racing, I would usually point-by on the right by pointing at the passenger window. If you don't have a second seat in the car, and you have brightly colored gloves, its pretty easy to see. A point by to the left, on the other hand, would be a feeble "finger-poke" through the net. This may be a lot harder to see, depending the the orientation of the two cars. It did seem to work, however.