carreracup21

I was watching the T1 race on speed and was surprised to see Heinricy, who was driving a vette, just run away from Baker driving a Porsche GT3. I'm sure both are great drivers, but every road test I've ever read, had the GT3 somewhat faster than the vettes in stock trim. Anyone familiar with the T1 rules and how those cars are set-up. The T1 Vettes must be damn fast cars !! I think they allow open chip mapping in T1 ?

Z06

Heinricy job is to race and develop cars for GM, you can ask some of those questions on the GT3 forum, there is someone there who races in the T1 series.

They are stock engines that can be blueprinted and with an open computer map. There are limits to the mods you can do.

I would like to know more about Bakers car, tire size and..............

carreracup21

I know it's not fair to compare lap times on the same track at different times of the year, but just to give a little perspective. Heinricy in the vette would have smoked all the GTC3 Cup cars at the last PCA race at Mid-Ohio and had a fastest race time of 1:33.99 !! Baker in the heavy stock ? GT3 on DOT's had a 1:35.12 and would have also done very well, if not won, against the full GTC3 cup cars on slicks. The GTC3 PCA winner did a 1:35.3 during the race in a 04 GT3 Cup. Those guys at the top of SCCA are hauling A** !!

carreracup21

Did some more looking around and it looks like there were some GT3 Cups running at the SCCA runnoffs in GT2 class. Paul Bonham did a 1:33.8 during the GT2 race, so Heinrecy would have had his hands full against the GT3 Cup, but not by much. Freddy Baker would also have had a respectable showing in the T1 GT3 against a GT3 Cup. T1 sounds like a very tough class with some incredible driving, but the diversity is lacking. It's almost entirely Vettes. Where are the Vipers ?

MJR911

Fred Baker won the class a few years ago in a 996 aero then ran a Viper the next year and was there this year in a gt3 (also a boxster in t2). Yes, those cars are incredibly fast. Phoenix Performance is right up the road from me here in Phoenixville, Pa (run by Joe Aquilante). According to Baker, Heinricy is in a class by himself. He is an incredible driver and the equivalent of alwin Springer to GM. Those Vettes are SO trick, and the tricks are in the smallest of details. The Vette was the car to have in that class this year, you can buy a race ready car from Phoenix for tens of thousands less than the sticker on a gt3.

MJR911

Bill, part of that time difference is due to the configuration at Mid-Ohio. PCA (atleast when I was there a few years ago) ran the chicane between turn 1 and the keyhole. SCCA did not run it at the runoffs I believe.

Z06

Is Bakers car an actual street GT3?......the Corvettes are mostly kit cars.

Greg Fishman

Wrong on the vettes. They are street cars prepared within the rules. Baker's GT3 was a street car and then modified so safety equipment and performance upgrades allowed within the rules.

carreracup21

Mitch,
There were some GT3 Cups at the SCCA Runoffs running in GT2 class. They are not competitive in that class, but the fastest ran a 1:33.8 for comparison to Heinricy's 1:33.99 on DOT's. Fast Vette / Driver. From what I've gathered, Baker's car is a street GT3. The only other versions available are the RS , and the GT3 Cup and obviously it is not one of those. It looked like it had the stock street wing. I'm not sure if there is much to be gained from the street GT3 by re-mapping the computer, maybe ? Can they run Motec ? In any case he would have to run DOT's compared with slicks on the cup car. Baker's performance relative to the Cups was very impressive.

Geo

All Touring (T) class cars are street cars available from the dealership. I'm not as familiar with the prep side of the T rules, but I would imagine if balancing is not allowed, the engines are balanced by part election. What I mean is you get a batch of parts and start measuring and weighing. When you build the engine you just select the best matching stock (unmolested) parts you can find. It's entirely possible to build a fully balanced engine this way. It's time consuming and thus expensive, and if you don't have someone else build the engine for you, if you don't have pretty much unlimited access to the parts, you'll have a lot of inventory.

IIRC, the Touring rules are the same as Improved Touring (where I race). That allows not only open maps, but you can gut the ECU and install anything your hear desires as long as it fits in the stock ECU box and you wire it up to the stock connector on the ECU since the wiring harness must be stock and you cannot add sensors. So, if you are clever, patient, and competitive, you can instal a MoTeC.

MJR911

Bill,
Good point comparing the gt2 to t1. Gt2 has full slicks less weight and less power. Finch's 944 is a 2.9 litre and they're probably running a bit more than 300hp. I further researched the t1 class and I doubt they're running motec induction, but as Geo said, the maps are probably optimzed for better gas, more timing and to match the open headers. Like I said before, Heinricy has all of GM's aprts bin at his disposal and is head engineer of the race cars (like the ALMS vettes)... you know all of that knowledge is priceless!

carreracup21

Yeah, it would be tough to compete with the level of preparation available to Heinricy. Impressive stuff and fun to watch. That F production race was something with those fast little midgets going at it. The F miatas looked huge by comparison.

carreracup21

Here are the GT2 results I was under the impression that the GT2 class was mostly tube frame stuff with the GT3 cups thrown in as an exception. Are you saying Finch did 1:29's with only 300 hp ? wow.

APKhaos

David Finch is no slouch. This was his sixth SCCA National title!

He has an interesting business - http://www.raetech.com,
and just happens to have been the race engineer for David Donohue, the son of Mark Donohue. Since 1996 they have had many successes together racing for DaimlerChrysler's Super Touring, FIA, and ALMS Viper factory teams.

SundayDriver

For clarification...

SCCA Touring classes (T-1, T2) are allowed only minimum modifications. They may balance and blueprint, but no preformance mods not specifically allowed. In the case of the Z06, there is an upgraded suspension. Wheels must be listed size. These cars are pretty close to stock.

GT classes are just about the opposite. GT-1 is basically a Trans-Am car to give an idea of pret. Some of the GT-5(?) minis have been converted to RWD. As long as the car looks the same, almost anything goes. Now just because this is allowed, it is not required. Cup Cars can run as GT-2's. I have even seem some older Vettes with stock frames run as GT-1s (not competitive, however).

There is a lot of data to suggest that the pro config is 1.7 seconds faster than the club config from previous years - this is for the Sports Racers and includes both t he config and the resurfacing work. Should be pretty much the same for the other classes at around 2 seconds.

300HP in the GT-2 car doesn't mean much. Mid Ohio rewards handling much more than raw HP. The handling of these cars (at least those I am familiar with) changes a great deal during a race. You have to get the right setup AND decide whether you want it best early or late in the race.