carreracup21

Thanks Mark, looking forward to seeing the DSR race.

Geo

Actually, I'd be absolutely shocked to find out the front runners in Touring were not running the MoTeC. I know there are people in IT doing that already and the rules are the same for the ECU.

JCP911S

If you ever drove a Z06 you will understand that they have torque from here to heaven.... very big advantage out of the turns where trick gearboxes are not allowed. Also, minor tweeks of induction exhaust well within the rules should take them up in the low-mid 400hp range... plus they are not all that heavy... maybe even lighter than the Porsche.... have huge tires and brakes right off the showroom floor.

Add in a factory level of development and driving and this is not surprise.

APKhaos

Mark,
Great coverage of your Runnoff exploits on Speed. You got a good chunk of air time, including the second lap pile-up footage that was the first piece in Speed's highlight reel. Nice work avoiding the mess. Congrats again!

Z06

Is there any info on the T1 GT3?

trumperZ06

B I N G O

There's a lot of info on T-1 racing at www.sccaforum.com

Debbie Loth who use to race Vipers with Archer, started a thread a few weeks ago where she "all but said".... the Vettes are almost unbeatable in T-1.

Good to have the Porsche GT3's entering. We need more variety in sportscar racing.

T-1 starts with a basicly stock car and allows a few modifications. The Vipers were "restricted"... to equalize the horsepower a few years ago.

Professor Helmüt Tester

I'd stay away from all electrical appliances for a while, George. And brush up on that GCR, too.

Touring rules aren't the same as IT, for many things...but especially for engine management.

Touring = Showroom Stock (SS), with 'trunk kits' gone wild. Up until about 3-4 years ago, manufacturers with cars in SS could request and get approval from SCCA for a number of 'mods' - suspension, engine management, etc. All that went away in '99 or '00, probably due to the Civic Si overdog in SSC (Der Professor was sometimes pedaling an SSB and SSC car when things were getting nuts with trunk kits).

Touring class cars must remain Federal/EPA emissions-compliant. That means working stock cats, that means a stock computer that can be 'altered' inside the housing, but NOT replaced with anything else. Cars must still pass a CEL (check engine light) test at impound, and must have a stock port for a scanner/code reader to read. Cars can't have a CEL on, or have thrown any codes. If you stick a probe up their little tailpipe post-race, they damn well better pass an emissions test. If you can figure out how to add a Motec that will act like a stock computer, pass a CEL test and not throw any codes, you know something that the rest of us don't.

I saw a couple of cars get tossed at impound at a National this year, just due a CEL illuminated and a failed scanner read or CEL key-on engine-off/key-on engine-on cycle test (whatever it's called).

IT rules allow for the guts of the ECU to be 'altered or replaced'. Touring only allows for alterations, which amount to a chip...or maybe diddled sensor values. Waaay big difference.

Touring classes still allow 'trunk kits' and mods, which are mostly related to suspension and brake performance and cooling. 993 and 996 Porkers get any springs and swaybars they want, the Corvettes get better brake cooling, blah
blah blah.

If you haven'd driven a ZO6 Vette, you may not want to...'cuz on the 'Yuks Per Buck' scale, they smoke every other hi-performance car on the planet.

Der Professor must provide full disclosure: In his personal Oil-und-Grease-Platz, there sits a '65 327-365hp Coupe (Nassau blue).

SundayDriver

Thanks. It was really fun to get to watch.

Geo

I would argue they are effectively the same. I'd argue the line between modify and replacement can be awfully fuzzy. But you're right, I forgot about the CEL deal with Touring.

JCP911S

Closet 'vette owners unite....

Professor Helmüt Tester

You would lose that argument. Talk to the Tech staff in Topeka or any member of the Comp Board. They have razors buzzing away for that fuzz.

Geo

That's interesting considering conversations we've had in the ITAC related to keeping the IT rules in line with T in this regard.

Do you know this from first-hand discussions/experience or are you speculating? If you have first-hand knowledge I'd like to discuss this with you privately as this could impact other conversations I've been involved with.

Professor Helmüt Tester

To claim that the IT and T engine-management rules are 'effectively the same' is just inaccurate. They're miles apart. Even a cursory reading of both rule-sets would reveal that. If the ITAC is discussing a convergence of rule-sets, I think they need to spend some time reading both rules sets, as I'll assume from your inference that they have not. Again...a simple call to Topeka would provide some guidance - 1-800-Jeremy.

There is no 'speculation' on the issue. IT cars do not need to be emissions-compliant. Throw out the cats, ditch any portion of the emissions systems you want. Touring class cars must meet Federal/EPA standards, not just light/extinguish a CEL light. The gap between the two is huge. If the ITAC is discussing a rules-change 'related to keeping the IT rules in line with T in this regard', first they have to show how they actually are 'in line' now. If the IT world hears that the ITAC is spending its time considering sending IT down the SS/T engine management route, the uproar will quickly unseat the current ITAC players. Besides, the Comp Board won't take input from crazy people.

I'd be happy to discuss it, but the statements you've made make me think that either you or the ITAC is off on 'Planet X' on this issue. RTF GCR.

Geo

Wow. How rude. You don't even know what conversations have been had. You are merely speculating. I don't know why you're being so rude, but so be it. We've had decent conversations in the past so I don't know why this one has turned ugly.