So what happened at Putnam? 10/2-10/3 Weekend Update
10-05-2004, 07:20 PM
#32
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Do ya one better, maybe I'll bring one with me! Heck, last time we were there - I HAD A SEAT!!! Just swapped for an OMP with the other 924 guys... went to a race, came back from a swapmeet! Motor, seat, rims, etc., etc... 
10-05-2004, 08:50 PM
#33
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I do have a new recaro racer pro & mount for the passenger seat, I just dont put it in due to the extra weight. I also have harnesses. One time I'll bring them for fun :-)
10-06-2004, 10:52 AM
#37
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CC, here is a non-detailed description :-)
I touch the apex curbing at turn 2 (to get turned in at the entry I left foot tap brakes with a little trail braking and keep throttle floored so I do not lose boost but yet still transfer the weight to the front so it will turn in at high speed- I can carry much more speed that way),
still floored, drift out to the curbing on the left for 3
still floored, close to the curbing at the right (after three entering 4) move towards center of track
lightly left foot tap brake to transfer weight and get the nose turned in - yes its floored
Im am actually on the apex curing on the left side of 4
Exit floored and the car drifts all the way on top the the exit curbing on the right. Just dont go too far or you will end up in the nasty bumpy infield and hurt things...
Depending on your power and gearing you may go up 1 gear then back down 1 gear before entering 5. Or you may be at the top of your rpm range.
5 is verrry fast - did I mention fast (3 digit speed in my car). Most people over brake. It is only a slight tap of the brakes to get the nose turned in and then my right tires drive right over the whole apex curbing on the right.
The car is floored. The car drifts all the way out on top of the exit curbing. Be smooth and extremely precise you do not want to end up off the track.
6 is not a turn, I take it floored and my right wheels go right over the curbing.
Floored until I brake for 7 .
9 & 10 - well lets say I take the fast race line. The line we teach in DE is the safe line. For someone with lots of experience, it is not the fastest line. The 9-10 transition is very fast. The car will move around and hop a lot - feels like the Sebring turn entering the front straight.
After exiting 8 I drift all the way onto the exit curbing on the right then end up heading straight towards the left side of the track for extry into 9. I am a few feet off the left. Tap the brakes and head towards and then actually touch the entry curbing and apex curbing on the right and modulate between floored and a little less. As you crest from 9 to 10 the car will hop and bounce (at least mine does since it is so stiff) and I stay in it and control it. However, it is always a little disconcerting even when you are used to it.
I then drift left and touch the 10 entry curbing on the left (near pit entry) and turn in a little late for 10 so I am pointing down the straight, not directly at the guard rail. Carrying enough speed that the car drifts on top of the exit curbing...
All that being said, I would suggest only trying new things in minute steps. Try one at a time because an increase or change in one turn will cascade and affect your next turns.
My last qualifying time was 1:09.9. I am continuing to do shock setup and think I can get in the upper 1:07's once I get the suspension dialed in better.
Hope that helps. Of course this is just my opinion and there is no warranty on this because to do it fast you are always on the edge - read at the risk of danger. Which is not appropriate unless you completely know your car, the track, have a lot of experience and can handle it...
How's that for a disclaimer.
In any case, at least maybe it is interesting....
Also, my car has a locked spool no diff, which makes it that much more important to really push the car and left foot brake to get it turned in...
It's like driving a shifter kart.
This is all from recollection, but hopefully I am remembering accurately. Most likely I am forgetting a few important things..
Norm
I touch the apex curbing at turn 2 (to get turned in at the entry I left foot tap brakes with a little trail braking and keep throttle floored so I do not lose boost but yet still transfer the weight to the front so it will turn in at high speed- I can carry much more speed that way),
still floored, drift out to the curbing on the left for 3
still floored, close to the curbing at the right (after three entering 4) move towards center of track
lightly left foot tap brake to transfer weight and get the nose turned in - yes its floored
Im am actually on the apex curing on the left side of 4
Exit floored and the car drifts all the way on top the the exit curbing on the right. Just dont go too far or you will end up in the nasty bumpy infield and hurt things...
Depending on your power and gearing you may go up 1 gear then back down 1 gear before entering 5. Or you may be at the top of your rpm range.
5 is verrry fast - did I mention fast (3 digit speed in my car). Most people over brake. It is only a slight tap of the brakes to get the nose turned in and then my right tires drive right over the whole apex curbing on the right.
The car is floored. The car drifts all the way out on top of the exit curbing. Be smooth and extremely precise you do not want to end up off the track.
6 is not a turn, I take it floored and my right wheels go right over the curbing.
Floored until I brake for 7 .
9 & 10 - well lets say I take the fast race line. The line we teach in DE is the safe line. For someone with lots of experience, it is not the fastest line. The 9-10 transition is very fast. The car will move around and hop a lot - feels like the Sebring turn entering the front straight.
After exiting 8 I drift all the way onto the exit curbing on the right then end up heading straight towards the left side of the track for extry into 9. I am a few feet off the left. Tap the brakes and head towards and then actually touch the entry curbing and apex curbing on the right and modulate between floored and a little less. As you crest from 9 to 10 the car will hop and bounce (at least mine does since it is so stiff) and I stay in it and control it. However, it is always a little disconcerting even when you are used to it.
I then drift left and touch the 10 entry curbing on the left (near pit entry) and turn in a little late for 10 so I am pointing down the straight, not directly at the guard rail. Carrying enough speed that the car drifts on top of the exit curbing...
All that being said, I would suggest only trying new things in minute steps. Try one at a time because an increase or change in one turn will cascade and affect your next turns.
My last qualifying time was 1:09.9. I am continuing to do shock setup and think I can get in the upper 1:07's once I get the suspension dialed in better.
Hope that helps. Of course this is just my opinion and there is no warranty on this because to do it fast you are always on the edge - read at the risk of danger. Which is not appropriate unless you completely know your car, the track, have a lot of experience and can handle it...
How's that for a disclaimer.
In any case, at least maybe it is interesting....
Also, my car has a locked spool no diff, which makes it that much more important to really push the car and left foot brake to get it turned in...
It's like driving a shifter kart.
This is all from recollection, but hopefully I am remembering accurately. Most likely I am forgetting a few important things..
Norm
Last edited by ngoldrich; 10-06-2004 at 11:27 AM.
10-06-2004, 11:26 AM
#38
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Ouch ... thanks. I thought double apexing 9-10 was faster in our cars. You are flat out through 2-3 into 4. OMG! Flat through 5-6. Yikes again.
My car does the same hopping in between 9-10. It does it with a little negative camber and scares the *$#% out of me.
My car does the same hopping in between 9-10. It does it with a little negative camber and scares the *$#% out of me.
10-06-2004, 11:29 AM
#39
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When you are flat 2-3 entering 4 that car does indeed move around a lot. So you have to be very aware and controlled.
The hopping in 9-10 is still even a bit disconcerting to me too. Itg just doesnt stop me from doing it :-)
Norm
The hopping in 9-10 is still even a bit disconcerting to me too. Itg just doesnt stop me from doing it :-)
Norm
10-06-2004, 11:40 AM
#40
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Norm,
I think you need to use more throttle.
My car hops around on the exit of 9 as well and two things I found that help. I took a wider arc and avoided some of the rough pavement and I softened the compression slightly. When you are behind another 911 you can really see how much hopping the car does. The 944's don't seem to have that issue, from my recollection.
I think you need to use more throttle.
My car hops around on the exit of 9 as well and two things I found that help. I took a wider arc and avoided some of the rough pavement and I softened the compression slightly. When you are behind another 911 you can really see how much hopping the car does. The 944's don't seem to have that issue, from my recollection.
10-06-2004, 11:49 AM
#41
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Greg,
At this weekends race, we have 4 races and a full day of testing 3 1/2 hrs track time on Friday alone, so I will do all sorts of nitrgoen pressure, bounce & rebound tests.
Lowering my nitrogen pressure may help too. We will see.
My E-stock 944 turbo was not as stiff and you are right, it did not hop like this car does...
Norm
At this weekends race, we have 4 races and a full day of testing 3 1/2 hrs track time on Friday alone, so I will do all sorts of nitrgoen pressure, bounce & rebound tests.
Lowering my nitrogen pressure may help too. We will see.
My E-stock 944 turbo was not as stiff and you are right, it did not hop like this car does...
Norm
10-06-2004, 12:03 PM
#42
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Norm, when I tried flying through exit 2-3 into 4, I was going so fast that 3 acted like a kink and threw me down into the inside of the entry to 4, where I think it’s a little off camber before the hill. From there I couldn't get set up for 4. How do you handle that? Really run wide from 2 and wait a long time before turning into 3?
10-06-2004, 12:51 PM
#43
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Wow Norm, great track notes for PP. And I could FEEL that lap. Thanks.
I can't wait to go back now.
I'm doing some of that, but not all. I'm getting faster in 2 but not up to the left foot brush. In 4 I'm close to flat after a brush. In my 44, having tried both the arc and the double apex, my data acquisition - the tach at 10 track out - say the double apex is faster. But after reading your notes, I may be using too much middle pedal before turn in at 9.
Jeff let me co-drive your old car in the Enduro a few weeks ago. It is soooo sweet.
I can't wait to go back now.
I'm doing some of that, but not all. I'm getting faster in 2 but not up to the left foot brush. In 4 I'm close to flat after a brush. In my 44, having tried both the arc and the double apex, my data acquisition - the tach at 10 track out - say the double apex is faster. But after reading your notes, I may be using too much middle pedal before turn in at 9.
Jeff let me co-drive your old car in the Enduro a few weeks ago. It is soooo sweet.
10-06-2004, 02:27 PM
#44
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CC, I take 3 really just as a bend not a turn and drift through it. As I drift I lightly left foot brake to transfer weight to the nose as I guide the car onto the left curbing at 4 while still applying throttle the whole way. You cannot go wide in 4 or as you mentioned, the camber change is way too great and you cannot carry enough speed since you will drift off the track.
From the apex of 2 all the way to the entrace of 7 it is like doing a ballet. It is just one big series of interconnected smooth dances steps. Mess one of them up and it really interrupts the continuity...
I may not have given the best reference marks for turn 3 to 4. Since I will be there this weekend it will be fresh in my mind and I will try to follow up and clarify. I have been racing almost every other week this summer, so it sometimes becomes a blur...
Norm
From the apex of 2 all the way to the entrace of 7 it is like doing a ballet. It is just one big series of interconnected smooth dances steps. Mess one of them up and it really interrupts the continuity...
I may not have given the best reference marks for turn 3 to 4. Since I will be there this weekend it will be fresh in my mind and I will try to follow up and clarify. I have been racing almost every other week this summer, so it sometimes becomes a blur...
Norm
10-06-2004, 02:29 PM
#45
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One additional thing to remember, the speeds are relative to my current car. When I drove the 944 Turbo E-stock car last year, I ended up driving it the same way, it just did not go as fast. By the end of the summer, I had that car down to low 1:18. But obviously my speeds were slower in many places due to weight, power, grip, etc...
Norm
Norm