SCCA Drivers School events
10-01-2004, 02:31 AM
#1
Going with the pack
is quite monotonous.
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is quite monotonous.
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SCCA Drivers School events
How exactly are these things run?
Their website says almost nothing about it.
I'm wondering what type of car is required besides a fully prepped race car.
I'm wondering if something like a formula car is acceptable, or if there will be requirements for a passenger/instructor??
Also, what are the average costs for the events?
Just going to start working towards getting into some racing, and figured I should ask the easy questions first
Thanks!
Their website says almost nothing about it.
I'm wondering what type of car is required besides a fully prepped race car.
I'm wondering if something like a formula car is acceptable, or if there will be requirements for a passenger/instructor??
Also, what are the average costs for the events?
Just going to start working towards getting into some racing, and figured I should ask the easy questions first
Thanks!
10-01-2004, 08:58 AM
#2
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You don't need accomodations for a passenger.
You can get cost info from your local region's website
If you haven't already contacted the licensing person in your region, that would be a good next step.
I can say this: they don't have the time w/in the class to teach you how to drive at speed. They're concerned about teaching you the flags, and how to play well with others in a pack. If you don't have experience driving on a track, I'd encourage you to attend one or more DEs in a car that can accomodate a passenger.
You can get cost info from your local region's website
If you haven't already contacted the licensing person in your region, that would be a good next step.
I can say this: they don't have the time w/in the class to teach you how to drive at speed. They're concerned about teaching you the flags, and how to play well with others in a pack. If you don't have experience driving on a track, I'd encourage you to attend one or more DEs in a car that can accomodate a passenger.
10-01-2004, 09:32 AM
#3
Race Director
To expand upon what Robert said, you only need a car that meets the safety requirements. At schools they are not concerned about class legality. You will need to get a log book. This requires an annual inspection plus. They will examine the cage and stamp it with the number on your log book. This is a process that is best pre-arranged before the event.
As Robert said, no passengers. This is not DE. You instrutor will watch you from various points around the track. Their first concern is safety. Somewhere down the list is helping you to get around the track a little better.
Bring someone along to help you with the car. Expect a VERY busy day. You're lucky to find time to relieve yourself. You have instructor consultation, track session, instructor consultation, track session.... and so on. You usually have to seek out your instructor. They try to find their students, but it's your responsibility to consult with your instructor. Expect to get about 4.5 hours of track time. You'll be exhausted at the end of the day.
On track they will throw all sorts of strange situations at you just to see how you react. You'll see yellow flags, double yellow flags (full course caution), black flags, black flag all, red flags, white flags, etc. Expect to find safety vehicles on the course.
At the end of the day the Chief Steward will as your instructor if they would feel comfortable racing with you. That is the measure of a pasing grade.
As Robert said, no passengers. This is not DE. You instrutor will watch you from various points around the track. Their first concern is safety. Somewhere down the list is helping you to get around the track a little better.
Bring someone along to help you with the car. Expect a VERY busy day. You're lucky to find time to relieve yourself. You have instructor consultation, track session, instructor consultation, track session.... and so on. You usually have to seek out your instructor. They try to find their students, but it's your responsibility to consult with your instructor. Expect to get about 4.5 hours of track time. You'll be exhausted at the end of the day.
On track they will throw all sorts of strange situations at you just to see how you react. You'll see yellow flags, double yellow flags (full course caution), black flags, black flag all, red flags, white flags, etc. Expect to find safety vehicles on the course.
At the end of the day the Chief Steward will as your instructor if they would feel comfortable racing with you. That is the measure of a pasing grade.
10-01-2004, 09:47 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
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Your post doesn't indicate that you have a lot of "track experience". If you don't have on track experience, you might look at starting with some D E Events and working your way up to racing! THere's a lot happening on a road course with a lot to learn before your ready to go "wheel to wheel". If you want to go "racing" right away, a professional school provides the quickest learning curve. You will probably need to take two or three full 3-day courses to prepare. This isn't "cheap"... but is the quickest method that I'm aware of!
Good Luck!
10-01-2004, 11:38 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
I agree with what everyone above says, especially trumperZ06. I think DE's are the way to go. I went to a Skip Barber School in 1984. Went to a SCCA drivers school at Savannah in early 1985, and raced a Spitfire for 2 years and a F440 for 2 years. Then I bought my 944, and started DE's with the Porsche Club. I was amazed at how much I didn't know. PCA DE's helped me more than anything I had done before. I got more individual attention than even Skip Barber's school.
Now, if you are the next incarnation of Michael Schumacher then maybe you can get by with just a SCCA drivers school, I see people do very well going that way. But, I am a clutz, and for me PCA DE's were they way to go.
Bill Seifert
1987 944S Race Car under const.
Now, if you are the next incarnation of Michael Schumacher then maybe you can get by with just a SCCA drivers school, I see people do very well going that way. But, I am a clutz, and for me PCA DE's were they way to go.
Bill Seifert
1987 944S Race Car under const.
10-01-2004, 12:02 PM
#6
Race Director
Two or three full 3-day commercial racing schools is way over the top IMHO.
DEs are a good way to figure out how to get around a race track. I'm not one who thinks you have to do a ton of them though. I think in the PCA world and BMWCCA world there is a group think that has some hierarchy of DE to club racing that's way over blown.
Yes, DEs are good. Yes, you can always learn a lot from them (you should learn every time you're in a car on the track whether you're driving or not). But once you can get around a track safely I see no reason not to jump in with both feet. Steep learning curve? You bet. Nothing says you can't keep doing DEs either. But IMHO this idea of having to have X number of days or hours in DE before racing it way over blown. Nothing prepares you for racing but racing. DEs can teach you how to get around the track and be safe. That is a very good thing. But they sure don't teach you about racing. Your SCCA instructors will watch you to make sure you're safe, consistent, and aware of flags and other cars. If you can do that you can go racing. If you spend your first few races at the back, who cares? Just get out there and do it.
If you want to learn a lot fast, learn to heel/toe with your road car, but go kart racing. You'll be ahead of most of the other beginners after a half season.
DEs are a good way to figure out how to get around a race track. I'm not one who thinks you have to do a ton of them though. I think in the PCA world and BMWCCA world there is a group think that has some hierarchy of DE to club racing that's way over blown.
Yes, DEs are good. Yes, you can always learn a lot from them (you should learn every time you're in a car on the track whether you're driving or not). But once you can get around a track safely I see no reason not to jump in with both feet. Steep learning curve? You bet. Nothing says you can't keep doing DEs either. But IMHO this idea of having to have X number of days or hours in DE before racing it way over blown. Nothing prepares you for racing but racing. DEs can teach you how to get around the track and be safe. That is a very good thing. But they sure don't teach you about racing. Your SCCA instructors will watch you to make sure you're safe, consistent, and aware of flags and other cars. If you can do that you can go racing. If you spend your first few races at the back, who cares? Just get out there and do it.
If you want to learn a lot fast, learn to heel/toe with your road car, but go kart racing. You'll be ahead of most of the other beginners after a half season.
10-01-2004, 01:14 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
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With no track experience... I'm not sure ONE... three day beginners school teaches a new student a lot about driving on the track, much less "racing". Having completed a couple of schools, I noted a big difference in learning speed, if a student had some experiece before attending!Most schools ofter an additional "Advanced" course after you complete their beginners school, introducing higher skills, such as trail breaking. IMO... these schools accelerate the learning curve, but they are not cheap!
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10-01-2004, 02:06 PM
#8
Race Director
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
With no track experience... I'm not sure ONE... three day beginners school teaches a new student a lot about driving on the track, much less "racing". Having completed a couple of schools, I noted a big difference in learning speed, if a student had some experiece before attending!Most schools ofter an additional "Advanced" course after you complete their beginners school, introducing higher skills, such as trail breaking. IMO... these schools accelerate the learning curve, but they are not cheap!
10-01-2004, 05:42 PM
#9
Lifetime Rennlist Member
There are a lot of different ways to go racing. Currently, I think most people do a lot of track days then move on to racing. That is a good way to learn to drive fast but a poor way to learn racecraft. As an instructor at SCCA licensing schools, the stidents who have done the worst - who have failed or were at highest risk of failing, tended to have a lot of DE experience. They went out and drove very fast from their first session. But the were way over their heads with the traffic and didn't back it down a bit to adjust to the new environment.
IMO, the ideal way would be to do ~5 DE's then a professional school then the SCCA school. Or you can do it the way I did; SCCA school, then DE's to get seat time and then some pro schools.
I feel the most important thing is to decide what you want to do and work on developing BOTH your driving and your racecraft. It is pretty much impossible to develop both in the same venue when you are starting out.
IMO, the ideal way would be to do ~5 DE's then a professional school then the SCCA school. Or you can do it the way I did; SCCA school, then DE's to get seat time and then some pro schools.
I feel the most important thing is to decide what you want to do and work on developing BOTH your driving and your racecraft. It is pretty much impossible to develop both in the same venue when you are starting out.
10-01-2004, 06:13 PM
#10
Race Director
Well there a few things you need to learn to be an effective racer.
1) Flags & safety - This is stuff that SCCA teachs and focuses on
2) Basic car control - What does it feel like when the car is sliding around. What are you subconscience reactions. - You can learn this quickly at autocross
3) Driving lines at Speed - DE is great to learn how to to drive a car at speed on a track. You can learn all about apexes, lines, braking points, etc
4) Comfort and Safty in traffic - Here you learn to be comfortable with cars all around you and potentially passing in any place. Some advance DE groups allow this most do not. You can get this some of this experinece from SCCA schools, but they are focued on #1
5) Racecraft - This is really the abilty to "race" with people. How to out brake folks, how to defend positions, how to play mind games with competitors, etc. - Very few places to learn this without actually racing.
So to be an effective racer you need all 5 things and there are precious few places to experinece all of them. Professional schools actualy provide you will the opprotunity to learn a little bit about all of them, but do not have time to make you proficient in any other than maybe flags and proceedures.
My road to racing was as follows
1998 First few autocrosses in stock 951
Jan 1999 First DE with Stock 951
Jan 1999-Oct 2000 - various autocrosses and couple DE's with stock 951
Oct 2000-Feb 2002 - Various autocrosses and more frequent DE's and instucting - 84 944 track car.
April 2002- PCA club race school in 84 944 track car turned race car at home race track - Rookie Racer Award recipent for event.
May 2002- present - 40 + Races in a 944 spec car (NASA & PCA) with occasional autocrosses for fun diversion.
1) Flags & safety - This is stuff that SCCA teachs and focuses on
2) Basic car control - What does it feel like when the car is sliding around. What are you subconscience reactions. - You can learn this quickly at autocross
3) Driving lines at Speed - DE is great to learn how to to drive a car at speed on a track. You can learn all about apexes, lines, braking points, etc
4) Comfort and Safty in traffic - Here you learn to be comfortable with cars all around you and potentially passing in any place. Some advance DE groups allow this most do not. You can get this some of this experinece from SCCA schools, but they are focued on #1
5) Racecraft - This is really the abilty to "race" with people. How to out brake folks, how to defend positions, how to play mind games with competitors, etc. - Very few places to learn this without actually racing.
So to be an effective racer you need all 5 things and there are precious few places to experinece all of them. Professional schools actualy provide you will the opprotunity to learn a little bit about all of them, but do not have time to make you proficient in any other than maybe flags and proceedures.
My road to racing was as follows
1998 First few autocrosses in stock 951
Jan 1999 First DE with Stock 951
Jan 1999-Oct 2000 - various autocrosses and couple DE's with stock 951
Oct 2000-Feb 2002 - Various autocrosses and more frequent DE's and instucting - 84 944 track car.
April 2002- PCA club race school in 84 944 track car turned race car at home race track - Rookie Racer Award recipent for event.
May 2002- present - 40 + Races in a 944 spec car (NASA & PCA) with occasional autocrosses for fun diversion.
10-01-2004, 07:17 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by SundayDriver
There are a lot of different ways to go racing. Currently, I think most people do a lot of track days then move on to racing. That is a good way to learn to drive fast but a poor way to learn racecraft. As an instructor at SCCA licensing schools, the stidents who have done the worst - who have failed or were at highest risk of failing, tended to have a lot of DE experience. They went out and drove very fast from their first session. But the were way over their heads with the traffic and didn't back it down a bit to adjust to the new environment.
IMO, the ideal way would be to do ~5 DE's then a professional school then the SCCA school. Or you can do it the way I did; SCCA school, then DE's to get seat time and then some pro schools.
I feel the most important thing is to decide what you want to do and work on developing BOTH your driving and your racecraft. It is pretty much impossible to develop both in the same venue when you are starting out.
IMO, the ideal way would be to do ~5 DE's then a professional school then the SCCA school. Or you can do it the way I did; SCCA school, then DE's to get seat time and then some pro schools.
I feel the most important thing is to decide what you want to do and work on developing BOTH your driving and your racecraft. It is pretty much impossible to develop both in the same venue when you are starting out.
I think it just comes down to recognizing what you don't know & adjusting your focus accordingly.
10-01-2004, 07:41 PM
#12
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I'm going through SCCA licensing right now. I raced with SCCA 20 years ago and I decided to get back in it again. I agree with most of the comments above and I'd like adding a couple more.
SCCA schools, like anything else in life, are not all equal. I went through school this summer organized by the Mid-Hudson region at Lime Rock and it was SUPERB! For my $180 I received a very informative and entertaining 4-hour classroom session. An experienced and very successful club racer as my instructor and mentor. Over three hours of track time. Great commentary and pointers on safety, driving technique and racing etiquette. Unlimited quantities of bottle water and sports drinks to keep me hydrated. A pretty good dinner at the end. My experience however is that not all SCCA schools are this good.
The other point that I'd like to make is that SCCA over the last few years has become more lay back and less bureaucratic. I find my local PCA chapter to be a bit too stuffy. Also a lot more opportunities to race SCCA in the NE than PCA.
SCCA schools, like anything else in life, are not all equal. I went through school this summer organized by the Mid-Hudson region at Lime Rock and it was SUPERB! For my $180 I received a very informative and entertaining 4-hour classroom session. An experienced and very successful club racer as my instructor and mentor. Over three hours of track time. Great commentary and pointers on safety, driving technique and racing etiquette. Unlimited quantities of bottle water and sports drinks to keep me hydrated. A pretty good dinner at the end. My experience however is that not all SCCA schools are this good.
The other point that I'd like to make is that SCCA over the last few years has become more lay back and less bureaucratic. I find my local PCA chapter to be a bit too stuffy. Also a lot more opportunities to race SCCA in the NE than PCA.
10-01-2004, 11:44 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
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I'm not sure what the best way is, but I'm about to find out how the pure DE type of training works out. I've done @ 25 DE track days since March and will do my first race in PCA this Nov. at CMP. My lap times are there, but as some of you have mentioned, skills at handling traffiic and racecraft will be the big question marks. I'll just have to pick that stuff up on the fly I guess. Should be interesting, or maybe terrifying ? LOL.
