JCP911S

Not sure from this thread that we ever established that anybody "keyed" a car...Rjay admitted that it was 2nd hand... sounds like there is alot of speculation going on... not that that isn't fun, but there are names being named and this is a pretty public forum... it may have nothing to do with the Glen incident (100:1 shot, but possible)... somebody could very well backed a tow vehicle into somebody's car... do we really have the facts here?

Also, seems to me, when you go on a racetrack, you put your car (hopefully only your car) on the line... anything can happen. To "blame" another racer for an incident, even when it was a clear misjudgement... is stupid... bad judgement, red mist, poor maintenance are just as much a part of the risk as oil, mechanical failures etc... you sign up when you pull out of the pits... if you can't deal with it, don't race... racers are going to do stupid things...we will all do stupid things at some point... this is especially true when two guys race to the limit.... both people have to agree to do it or it wouldn't happen... they can back off... they both accepted the risk, and if something happens they have nobody to "blame" but themselves...

Mark in Baltimore

I completely agree. Too much conjecture with too few facts makes for far too many rumors.

RJay

Which was one of the reasons that I choose to keep the names out of it. I don't know either of the participants personally, but I do know their reputations. To me the greater issue is not precisely what happened in this incident but A) what can we do to prevent this sort of altercation in future and B) if something like this does occur what, if anything, should PCA do about it?

Since this thread started I received a private communication from someone who I have the utmost respect who confirmed the essentials of the story and actually witnessed the keying. Personally, that makes me fairly certain that it did occur, but again I don't think thats the real issue and frankly, were I you, I'd remain skeptical as who the hell am I anyway?

I'd suggest that at any and all PCA track events (including DEs and AXs as unlikely as this might be) should a car to car incident occur that the officials at the very least get the parties together to dicuss what happened so that everything at least gets aired out face to face. If you guys have suggestions as to handle and/or prevent this sort of thing I'd love to hear from you either here or by email. I certainly will convey your thoughts to our track committee.

Jeff Curtis

Yup, the part about keying the other guy's tow vehicle is what throws me...that is totally unbelievable, but I guess it's possible. When tempers flair, it's amazing what demon can come out of a person, a person that usually carries him (or herself) in a relatively cool, calm and MATURE manner can go NUTS when the right thing sets them off.

Mark, and others, you're exactly right, what PCA Club Racers need to realize is that NOTHING is gained from this type of behavior, whether on or off track. In most cases, we're not racing for trophies or anything, just "bragging rights" - although I was handed a VERY large bottle of champagne for my 1st win at a PCA race last year.

Let me tell you, that bottle of champagne isn't worth a dime if I had to replace a $1600 bumper cover because some butthead ran out of brakes and "tapped" me in the midst of "close racing".

Let it be said here, as I'm certain it's been said a million times before...guys, this is CLUB LEVEL racing, your bumpers, your whole car...heck, your LIFE for that matter is not worth "bragging rights" whatsoever! Save the bumping and grinding for the "higher levels" of racing, as it's definitely prevalent in those venues.

I hope (and pray) that this next weekend (October 1st-3rd) affords us GREAT weather and good competition...let's keep it clean and bring our (for some of us) occassional street drivers home in one piece.

...as for Mark in Baltimore - let me have turn1 or the keys come out! ...just kidding guys.

Manny Alban

If anyone keys my tow vehicle they've got serious problems coming their way....from my wife, it's her car during the week

JC in NY

I hit someone once during a PCA race and being flustered, embarrassed and not experienced in the art of paddock diplomacy I packed up and went home without talking to the guy I hit. This was the wrong thing to do, and the guy got my phone number, called me up, and tongue lashed me for it. I deserved it all. Being a gentleman racer he didn't hold the grudge very long.

Later at a different event, I was hit from the rear by someone else and that guy did not talk to me. I wasn't upset, I figured I got what was coming to me. Karma?

Since then I have done alot of research on paddock diplomacy and talking to many seasoned racers, both PCA and SCCA I have determined this is the protocol.

1. What happens on the racetrack is "racing", and everybody is responsible for their own car no matter what. Unless a very rare case of malicious negligence.

2. If you are at fault, apologize right there at the track and take your licks. Be humble. If you are not sure if you are at fault, you probably are and go apologize right than and there.

3. It's OK to give somebody a tongue lashing. It's called "venting" and it blows off the steam of your upcoming $3000 repair bill. It is expected and part of the protocol. Do it directly, don't make it too personal, and get over it when you're done.

4. Don't ask anyone to pay for your damage that occurs on the race track, and don't accept if someone offers. Be a gentleman. Deal with your own situation. This is the only system that works at the racetrack. Under unusual circumstances parties may work out a deal, but this should not be an expectation and it is rare.

5. After the incident and the aftermath, forget it and move on. Don't trash talk the other guy to everyone, it only makes you look bad.

Larry Herman

Very sound advice. I think that people forget that even 13/13 "no contact" is still racing and sh*t happens. Even Schumi makes mistakes, and sometimes it affects the other racers around him. No one out there wants their car damaged, or wants to hit someone else, but some people do not seem to realize that IT CAN HAPPEN, no matter how careful you are. If this is unacceptable...don't race.

JC in NY

Forget this idea. It will not work and there is a reason that it is never done. The paddock mob will sort it out by itself. There are unwritten laws of the paddock that a committe cannot enforce.

JCP911S

JC... well said. We can't always control what happens on the track... as Larry says, sh*t happens to even the best drivers... but we do have 100% control over what we do in the paddock.

As a rookie, (and I hope only as a rookie) I made more than my share of bone-headed moves, and only devine goodwill prevented any cars from being damaged as a result. I found that walking over to a guy to apologize, and save him the effort of calling you an A**hole by doing it first was a real incentive to be a little smarter on the track.... I think paying for a new bumper would be easier.

Anyone who thinks they have the ***** to race should have the ***** to eat it when they screwup.

I cannot believe that any PCA racer would intentionally damage another racer's car on or off the track

As far as keying a car.... jeese.... grow the F*UK up!!!

Finally, I find the Glen to be very easy on brakes... at least in my car...

924RACR

Agreed... I have always tried to live by the rule of apologize first, figure out what happened later. Even if you are pretty sure it wasn't your fault, you should be man (or woman) enough to apologize, and the other driver ought to have the intestinal fortitude to admit and accept at least some degree of responsibility. I will even apologize when I THINK I held someone up, being so slow, even though it's their responsibility to get around cleanly. I rarely have contact... maybe 3 times in SCCA racing in 5 years. I am, without exaggeration, a very clean racer.

But just remember (famous adage of Russian politics, as I understand) - it's hard for someone you take your head off when you walk in with it in your hands! Who knows, with enough humility in the paddock, it might even bleed over onto the race track, and that'd be a good thing!

dmoffitt

There are very few 100% black and white things in life, and I'm sure that extends to the track - it would seem extremely rare that any incident was 100% one party's fault. I like the 'Russian adage, a little humility and a sincere apology goes a long way in any situation, on or off the racetrack. Having met Ron S. at the 03 Clash this seems like an aweful mixup fueled by the emotions after an unfortunate incident, it's easy for us to argue / lable / condemn either or both parties from the safety of our computers, but that's really not fair.

Brian P

I used to think that what made DEs safer than normal street driving was the extremely low probability of car-to-car incidents. Then... this year, I've seen it happen 4 times at DE's. One was due to mechanical problems and the other three were completely driver errors.

I know that I've started paying much more attention to my mirrors any time that I'm near a braking zone and especially when I have to put on my brakes when I'm not in a braking zone.

RJay

I heard this weekend at the Zone 1 AX (so I take it as a totally unconfirmed rumor) that PCA has banned S for a year while Z has been banned permanently.

bauerjab

If that is true, I just find it unbelievable. I have known Oliver for a long time and can't fathom that he would do something like that. It's really sad...IF, AND I STRESS IF, it is true.

dmoffitt

Not to echo John, but it's quite a shame, if that's the case. Ron's very fun to be around, can't say I've met the other person involved but either way, it's still a shame.