I'm trying to put together a poster to use as a teaching tool for the big track at Willow Springs. For those of you familiar with the track, what are your thoughts on the line I'm currently showing?

The more input the better.



This is an example with the track unrealistically wide, which exaggerates the line, and might be more useful as a reference for novices:

 

Hey Jack,

Great map, and great idea. I'm not as artistic, so I made a few sloppy changes/additions to your map. I added a few more spots for OTEs (places where I've gone off), and added what I think is a fair representation of the line I drive into T2, and through T4-T5. The rest looks pretty identical to what I do, except that I think my turn-ins are a tad earlier, and not quite as pointy. Also, I trail the brakes into T1, T2, and a little into T5.

[time passes, while I attempt to upload file....]

Dang! Couldn't get the file to upload. I'll email it to you and edit my post.

 

Just curious - do you get the car straight before braking for T9, or are you braking on a curve like it appears in the second map? How much speed are you taking off? Never having run this track, I'm starting from scratch; it look like a very fast transition.

 

Jack,
That looks about right for the line, but I have only raced there for 4 days. Enough to learn the basics out there. Willow is odd in that the line basic line is pretty simple. The tough part are the sutblties of the line that can't be shown on a map. A good teaching tool is also in-car style photos of the corners and the line draw over these. This helps developed the visual references that one needs to excute the line effectivly.

Braking for turn 9? Well school line is to pick refernce point and straight line brake then then turn in. Racing line is trail brake (brake & turn). Tricky part is you don't need much brake. In my spec car I coming out of 8 flat out in 5th gear. I enter 9 and touch-up and slow may be 20 mph for turn 9.

 

Robert,

It's hard to tell from the map, but there's actually a little tiny straight section between 8 & 9. It's about 50 feet long (not much at 140mph). You can straighten the car just enough for braking in a fairly straight line. In the Radical, I don't brake, just downshift one gear and go back to full throttle. In your SRF, I believe it's flat, no lift, no downshift.

 

Jack, looks pretty good to me, with a couple critiques.

1) I learned a little different line into T2 from Jack Miller. Make the first apex a little sooner and turn in a little sooner. When I get this right I can dive into T2 without touching the brakes, just a little lift and then let the car scrub off speed in the corner itself with neutral throttle.

2) I can't seem to get my Boxster to consistently rotate around the Omega (T4). I believe it is a combination of the hill, slower speeds, and the mid-engine conspiring against me. So I don't go as high or make as sharp a turn there. But this may just be due to my lack of experience not the car or corner.

3) I am to the point where I can take T8 flat. Since there is a lot of track and it hasn't seemed to effect my times I usually hug the inside to keep it safe. Although, it is bumpier there so if you are uncomfortable with some woops at 125MPH your line may be better. Since most people stay wide in T8 this has had the added benifit of providing some valuable passing opportunities during a race. But may not be the best Time Trial (i.e. student) line.

I've only got about twice as many days as M758 so take my comments for what they are worth. Just wanted to add my $0.02.

 

Thanks for posting your map. As a novice, it seems easier to see the line on the wide map. I'm heading out to Willow this weekend w/ NASA for my 1st time... this is a helpful tool.

From everything I've heard, 8 & 9 have me a little worried. But seeing your map w/ the line makes me feel a bit better.

thanks,
Matt

 

Thanks for the input. I've just modified the 8-9 straight to make it a little bit clearer how the shape of the track changes, and I've also straightened out the braking/downshift zone at the end of 8.

Since this is targeting newbies, I'm trying to favor safer (and later) apexes. This has been an interesting experience, putting this together. I've got a handful of new things I'm going to try when I'm out there later this month, and I'll continue to tweak the map from there.

In the attached version, I've added a dashed line to show the no-brake Jack Miller line. Does this look about right?

 

Yeah, looks right to me. I think you are correct though. For a new driver the safe line is your original line. The first time I tried diving in without braking I pinched it to tight and went off in the inside of T2. Took me another full weekend to get back up to speed on even the "normal" line. Scary to say the least.

 

Here's the latest, with some alternatives tacked on:

 

T8 is no problem for most cars - it is flat out unless you are in a high HP and low grip car (VIper or TT on street tires). Even those on R tires are close to flat at ~130 mph.

T9 may be the single hardest corner in North America - ti gets my vote.


Now Jack, about your braking markers. Here is what I do - T1 is just the tiniest hint of brakes. About 1% more than I did the time I went off the outside at ~120 mph.
T2 is no brakes (flat out) as is T9 (downshift). Let me know how the lap feels using that "help".

 

The fast guys in SRF are full throttle, 5th gear through T9. I always went down to 4th. This is an absolutely brutal track - especially for SRF. Momentum is everything - You blow one corner a bit and you pay and pay and pay. A little bobble can cost you 2 seconds.

 

That's good advice -- if my car had r-compound tires, the same hp, and half the weight than it currently does.

But I run my porker on street tires. I can't get through 1 at much more than 95-100, which means I have to get rid of about 30 mph in that braking zone. I'm going to work on losing the brakes for 2 -- but it's going to be scary.

And I'm actually going to play around with losing the 5-4 downshift before 9. I'll still need to brake, but my low gearing might mean I'm wasting time and energy dopping into 4th only to grab 5th again before the pit wall starts.

One of these days, I'm going to have to get a ride in a Radical to see how the other half lives.

 

The latest, based on DJ's input, with an alternate path through 4 and into 5.

 

Thanks, Jack. That looks about right to me.