Best Way to Steer ?
08-12-2004, 11:36 AM
#31
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Mitch - I hope I didn't lead anyone astray, we teach students to let the "pulling" hand do most of the work because we have better fine motor control when pulling. The other hand is still part of the process as you point out.
As to sawing - I agree. By the time you *have* to saw you've already blow it. At the limit the fine corrections I described are almost imperceptible and as Sunday (I think) pointed out a blindfolded passenger wouldn't notice anything. Coarse corrections (i.e. sawing) upset the balance of the car and reduce the available grip. One last thing to note is that older 911's have a very active steering wheel. Driving over a dime will cause the wheel to move in your hands. This is not sawing.
Rgds,
As to sawing - I agree. By the time you *have* to saw you've already blow it. At the limit the fine corrections I described are almost imperceptible and as Sunday (I think) pointed out a blindfolded passenger wouldn't notice anything. Coarse corrections (i.e. sawing) upset the balance of the car and reduce the available grip. One last thing to note is that older 911's have a very active steering wheel. Driving over a dime will cause the wheel to move in your hands. This is not sawing.
Rgds,
08-12-2004, 11:39 AM
#32
Race Director
Originally Posted by SundayDriver
Exactly Greg. Redline and Geo - all great observations.
One thing I do and teach - use the cool off lap to be precise. Drive it a 7 or 8 10ths, but hit every turn in point, ever apex and every track out. Be as smooth as possible because most of us have gotten at least a bit rough (with the exception of the two stooges - LOL) and that is the chance to clean things up.
One thing I do and teach - use the cool off lap to be precise. Drive it a 7 or 8 10ths, but hit every turn in point, ever apex and every track out. Be as smooth as possible because most of us have gotten at least a bit rough (with the exception of the two stooges - LOL) and that is the chance to clean things up.
I do the same thing. It seems that most novice students want to go fast. Then it can be tough to teach the line. I try to use every warm-up and cool down to reienforce the line I am teaching. At slow speeds its is often much easier to explain and have the student follow the line. Then I do the same thing with warm up laps. I also tell the student it is good practice to always follow the line. Even on warm and cool down. And I also tell them to follow the right gear changes too. This tend burn into the ones mind where they want to be at all times on the track and what gear to be in. I guess I don't quite preach 7/10's laps Maybe more like 5/10's, but completely agree with your concept.
Back on topic,
I agree with a number of posters here. Start smooth. When you approach the limit minor corrections are needed. In the past few years I would be in the car driving the **** out of it. Working hard in every corner many lots of tiny corrections. Out of the car I'd always get the same response. Wow you are smooth. Well it never seemed smooth based on my inputs. Reason is that I was using all of those inputs to keep the car smooth at the limit. Often times novices will try to replicate the visual impact of those minor corrections, but the end result will be a car that moves and is NOT smooth. It is a subtly learned over time. The end result is that the car should be smooth through the corners and never appear to deviate at all. In most street based racers to get to the utimate limit it requires lots of corrections to keep that balance.
Driving at the limit is akin to balancing a broom on you finger. You need to make many corrections to keep it in an unstable equlibrium. Not enough corrections and it falls. Too many and too severe corrections and it falls. Get behing in your corrections and it falls. Get it right and the broom never seems to move at all.
08-12-2004, 12:19 PM
#33
Bob R... great clarifications... right on the money IMHO.... driving is the sum of alot of small details. All the comments are on point... glorious concensus for a change (not a colorchange... sorry I couldn'st resist...)
"Sawing" as a "technique" as opposed to making necessary corrections at the limit...are totally different. but a student must master holding the car steady at the limit before they start pushing the limit.... there is a big difference between extracting that last few percent, and just being sloppy.
Any mid turn correction is theoretically a bad thing... but theory doesn't account for bumps, camber changes, tire fade etc, etc... so it is inevitable.... especially on slower turns where you can afford to horse the car around a bit more.
As far as F1, look at Shumacher... his hands are rock steady except for the occasional counter-steer, and he would probably tell you disgustedly that that was a mistake....
IMHO, Alonso, Montoya and company have happy hands because their cars are not handling as well and they have to over-drive to keep in the ballpark.... you can almost see the cars understeering into the turns, they crank in wheel to get them to turn, and hack the wheel to get them to hook up... this isn't textbook technique, its what they have to do to keep thier jobs.
BTW... I talk about "at THE limit" when I should be saying MY limit... a pro driver would absolutely spank me nekked in my own car after about three laps... but its still fun...
"Sawing" as a "technique" as opposed to making necessary corrections at the limit...are totally different. but a student must master holding the car steady at the limit before they start pushing the limit.... there is a big difference between extracting that last few percent, and just being sloppy.
Any mid turn correction is theoretically a bad thing... but theory doesn't account for bumps, camber changes, tire fade etc, etc... so it is inevitable.... especially on slower turns where you can afford to horse the car around a bit more.
As far as F1, look at Shumacher... his hands are rock steady except for the occasional counter-steer, and he would probably tell you disgustedly that that was a mistake....
IMHO, Alonso, Montoya and company have happy hands because their cars are not handling as well and they have to over-drive to keep in the ballpark.... you can almost see the cars understeering into the turns, they crank in wheel to get them to turn, and hack the wheel to get them to hook up... this isn't textbook technique, its what they have to do to keep thier jobs.
BTW... I talk about "at THE limit" when I should be saying MY limit... a pro driver would absolutely spank me nekked in my own car after about three laps... but its still fun...
