sjanes

I've noticed from time to time, the topic of having a rollcage in a daily driver pops up in a thread. Mostly, the statement is about the danger of having a cage withing striking distance of ones unprotected (i.e. sans helmet) noggin. I am currently in the process of modifying my DE (and daily driven) 911, and part of that process includes the addition of a full rollcage with SFI spec rollcage padding, so this topic is of interest to me.

The car in question is an 87 911 Targa, and for those of you that have not seen the underside of a targa top, the frame is exposed, non-padded steel. So my thinking is that a properly padded rollcage has to be safer than the unpadded targa top frame, no? Also, the European Club Sport versions of the GT cars has a full cage, so would the factory release such a product if it was that dangerous?

Has anyone out there been in an accident in a rollcage equiped car while on the street? Maybe I'll have to start wearing my 6pt harnesses on the street to prevent me from moving around, but that seems like it would be a PITA.

Comments?

SJ

P.Po

Stacy,

Just wear your helmet and harness when you are driving on the street!!! =)

Hope you and family are doing well....

-Partrick

RedlineMan

Hey;

Nobody used to think of such things. Now, with scheister lawyers convincing everyone they can finance their life style aspirations with frivilous lawsuits, and liberal girly-man judges and juries willing to be conned as well, EVERYTHING is fair liability game.

Notice you don't see things like open framed targas these days? I think you need to consider what you have posted here, as you obviously are. I guess I'd say that if you feel you need a cage, you might also need a new street car!

sjanes

Hey Patrick. Long time. Do ya think the cops would understand about the helmet? "uh, hi officer. Oh the helmet, it's a safety thing."

WRT the family. We're good. The boy is already 8 months old. Hard to believe.

Have you been out to Mosport much this season? I haven't had a chance to make it down this year.

Stacy

Bob Rouleau

Stacy - FWIW the Club Sport GT cars are arranged so that the front half of the cage is removable for use on the street. The rear portion is protected by the club sport (GT3) seats which prevent your head from coming incontact with the cage. The kit in the Euro only GT3 is a nicely designed system.

In many jurisdictions a roll cage is illegal on a street driven car. Enforcement may be another matter though. I admit that your theory of a properly padded cage being no worse that the relatively unpadded A pillars makes sense to me. My biggest concern would be the proximity of the roll bar to an occupant's head. Proper seats should eliminate that problem.

Regards,

sjanes

John,

Point taken. The need for a cage was as much for chassis stiffness (it is a targa) as for saftey, but I just though I'd throw the question out there since I've seen the topic mentioned recently. As for frivilous lawsuits, I live in Canada. Here, anything can be settled for a case of beer

As for needing a new street car, I already have an airbag filled Volvo wagon

Stacy

Bill L Seifert

Stacy,

I won't give advice, but I will tell you my story. I drove my 83 944 with a full cage for about 3 years. It was kind of a pain getting over the door bar, but nothing I could not live with. I padded the heck out of the part that was close to my head, and I doubt it was any more dangerous than my head hitting the door jamb. The only problem I had, was when someone broke the passenger window to steal my stereo and camera. When my insurance agent looked at the car, he said, "why is there a roll cage in this car?" I just said, "in case it rolls over". He never asked for clairification, and I didn't volunteer any info. They never said another word.

I took the car off the street in about 97 or 98 to race it full time. The fact that my girlfriend complained, might have had something to do with it. (I didn't pad her side of the cage.) As you might guess, we didn't go together too long after that.

Anyway, it was not that much of a problem to me.

Bill Seifert

1983 944 Race Car
1987 944S Race Car under const.

sjanes

Thanks Bill.

My insurance company knows about the rollcage, and the car's use in driver's ed, so that shouldn't be a problem. And I don't think my wife will complain about the door bars too much since she hasn't been in the car in a couple of years(has something to do with removing the A/C and installing a monobal suspension), and now that we have an infant son and the 911 has no back seat, it will probably be a few more years again.

P.Po

Stacy,

I have not participated in a DE for two seasons now. (Was ice racing however!) I have been jumping around jobs, even tried unemployment (doesn't agree with my spending habits) and have not had the money to even drive my 951 on the street. That being said, I just purchased another 951!!! It is up in Ottawa and needs some work. Next time I am in town I will give you a shout, you should come by and see it. If you are coming out to the LeMans race at Mosport this year let me know. My new E-mail address is pparato (AT) medworxx duht company . (figue it out, hopefully auto-spammers won't)

About your question, I do drive around with John Hajny's great 944 rollbar in my car. I don't think it has any potential risks for street driving. John, thanks for providing a great product, I bought the bar over two years ago now... not sure you remember what an ordeal it was for me to come by and pick it up!

Too bad you hate trucks Stacy. I really think it is time for a truck and trailer for you!

-Patrick

Patrick

When anyone asks why I have a rollbar in my car, my answer is "No reason at all... I hope"

sjanes

I was actually looking at a F250 and a trailer over the winter but just can't pull the trigger. I look at the cost of a truck and can't help think of remote res. shocks and a 3.6L motor

38D

I think he's talking about a two four, eh?

JackOlsen

Depending on the age of the 911, the safety of the interior in an impact probably ranges from mildly unsafe to downright hazardous. No front or side airbags, last time I checked. The steel edge at the roofline of a coupe will do some damage to your noggin, as will the A or B pillars.

A cage in a street car involves some trade-offs. Even with the SFI padding, you could break an arm or a leg on it -- especially if you're running a knee bar. Then again, the cage is going to dramatically improve the integrity of the cabin in a big hit.

I run a fully-caged (no knee-bar) car on the streets, with SFI padding, and I don't think it makes the car significantly more dangerous. But let's not kid ourselves: compared to modern airbag cars, pre-1990 911's are not all that safe to crash in no matter how they're outfitted.

sjanes

I'm still debating on the kneebar. I have it, but it's not installed yet (Safety Devices bolt in cage). I'm pretty sure my targa without the cage would fold up like a tinfoil ball in a big accident, but my Volvo just doen't make a good track car If I had to do all over again, I think I would do the 3.6L in a 72 with a welded in cage. A friend of mine Rick did that, and it was pretty sweet.

993Cabriolet

My 2 cents: AT PR we lost one of our Porsche "icons" due to a car accident: He was killed when another car rear-ended his Porsche, hitting his head against the bar. At the very least: fabricate one that you can get out while not using a helmet.