Agree. I am sending a more neutral video along with a full session video to the organizer and hopefully they will finally do something about this guy and his son who both presented the same attitude on and off track that day.

 

This would be my advice too. Most instructors will tow the party line and say give them room and they'll let you pass or pull in, and all that nice advice, but my experience is they'll never ever let you pass if you do that. As the first car in the conga line, my own instructor brain says it is your responsibility to make your car glow as big as possible to get them to let you by as you are the only car that can make it known that they are caught and need to let faster traffic pass. IMO what works best for me is to charge up fast on their *** and make them know that the only reason I didn't hit them is because I chose to not hit them, not because they somehow found 5 seconds a lap in a split second. I'll also ride their *** ever closer and closer until I get into close to sprint racing distance, or I start to put my nose in like I'm executing a pass. No one likes that and while it isn't going to make the guy in front your friend, I never had someone make a complaint that got back to me. I'll give people a lap+ generally or 2 long straights depending on the track, because people can be caught up in the moment and may not check their mirrors, or may not be comfortable letting people by in certain sections.

If I am not in a car that I am willing to do that in and they do not get out of the way, I do do exactly waht you did and switch spots with a guy behind me and hopefully he can pressure them enough to start letting them let people by.... but its potentially riskier to do that IMO as now we have confusion if you're holding up traffic behind you or what, and the guys further back now think you're a problem too, which is what we saw here.

 

1:32 is a respectable time on Tbolt for your car on street tires. I'm calling BS on the guy who said you should be doing 1:25s with your setup. Maybe a pro could approach that?

 

I look through my telemetry this morning (Racechrono app is pretty awesome, much better than Garmin). 1:27-28 consistently is feasible with my setup if you are pushing every corner. Pros/aliens might be able to do 1:25, but that's not the point of a HPDE is it?

 

Agreed.

 

My biggest issue with this isn’t the contact or even the attitude of the other driver (99% of the people I’ve met at the track are awesome, but there’s always THAT guy) it’s the attitude of the organization to just kind of shrug it off.

 

One skill that may have helped here is checking your mirrors right after turn in. This helps ensure the car behind is not trying something stupid. While it’s typically not needed at DEs, it’s a skill that really helps avoid contact in races. And it may have helped here.

 

Duly noted. Thank you

 

A big problem for Radical/Revolution drivers in mixed environments is not just lack of awareness (or care) of speed differential, it is also lack of awareness of their own limited visibility to other cars because of their low profile.
Combine that with an aggressive overeager driver (not the OP who had nothing to prove) and you will have trouble.
I've seen it too many times.

The good drivers understand this and play well accordingly.
Those better drivers often use a clever pedal to the left of the throttle called the BRAKE, and that driver could have back out in this corner. Or at least tried.

 

I woulda waited for him to go take a leak and then steal his gas jug caps…

 

For context, I did hpde a long time ago. I have raced w2w at national level racing swings around the Country on and off over 20 years. Im no hot shoe just an amateur club racer some seasons very committed to the sport. I’m sure I will offend some of you. It’s not my intention to offend but hopefully some will think. My comments are not to specific people but probably apply to many of us myself included at some time in my growth as a racer.

why do we club race? To be the biggest swinging duck? To be special? To have fun? To earn a living through this stepping stone? I think the majority are in it for fun. The rest I don’t want to share the track with you. If you aren’t having fun go home and let others have their fun. While racing for wins is a selfish endeavor We all paid the same registration fee. Leave your work and family frustrations behind when you enter the pits. The rest of us don’t need your frustrations to become our frustrations on track.

why are we “entitled “ to a point-by? Think about it from the slow guys perspective. If the slow guy is going 100% at his level with all his sensory inputs at maximum it is possible he isn’t able to process your desire to be Mario Andretti. If you are so fast move up to an open passing group or get your race license. Filling the slow cars mirror with your car looming large and running up to his door and backing off is just showing you are an inconsiderate ***. If you are so fast then point-by groups aren’t for you. How would you feel if you played those games at a more risky point on the track and the guy hits a wall and scores a hospital visit? We all have to take care of each other on track. There are simple remedies. Just drive through the hot pit. Or after a session ask the stewards to remind the driver or all drivers in “down load” or impound the “ point by” rules. Confronting another driver just causes drama and ruins the fun for both of you. Stewards are there to run the event. Let them do their job. If it seems petty to get stewards involved then it is. They are 95% volunteers let’s not make their jobs any harder. Suck it up buttercup. Get to grid early for clear track.

I don’t see anywhere in gcr or supps that damage is paid by anyone but yourself. Expecting an offer to pay for damage? Are you dreaming? If you cannot afford to walk away from a totaled car then this sport is not for you. If the fender on your Ferrari costs more than another drivers entire cayman that’s on you. We need to take responsibility for ourselves. Yeah that guy might be in a sports racer doing the wrong thing but we need to be aware, perceptive about how others drive around you, knowledgeable about conflicts with closing speeds among other things. Being right but dead is still dead. When you know about conflicts in closing speed and you still choose to drive whose fault is that? Drive with another group that does not put 1700lb rockets with 3500lb school buses. People who complain they didn’t get a point by fast enough are just whiners. Save your complaints for real safety issues. Remember the old cliche…”it’s better to be silent and thought a fool than open ones mouth and remove all doubt.”

 

the only true justice

 

I think this problem of DE incidents is almost exclusive to people who only drive DE and does not include racers.

Why? Because DE is just practice or a social event to racers and not the end goal. For people who only do DE, and are trying for their personal best, that is all they have.

Before racing I would get annoyed if someone held me up in a DE. After my first race I never cared again.

I go to DEs to have fun and hang with my friends.

The solution? Go racing.

 

HPDE's are for everyone. Everyone is entitled to a point by so they get to use the race track as intended. This right is not reserved for just faster run groups but all groups including green. If you want to start a conga line, go find a wedding. Someone's right to use the race track does not trump someone else's right, and even in sprint races we have blue flags and its heavily frowned upon if backmarkers are holding up or trying to 'race' faster traffic.


If someone is so frazzled that they can't handle a car coming up on their butt, they are not ready to be soloed, and if they have mistakenly been promoted to solo, they need to be self aware and ask to step down to running with an instructor again which can help them navigate passes so everyone can enjoy the race track. All your whataboutisms can be solved by addressing the problems of the one specific frazzled driver, not by handicapping the entire field of 50+ cars that have no problems driving on a race track and letting faster traffic by. Every student evaluation form I've filled out regardless of organization has categories that require me to rate a student's situational awareness, passing safety, and general safety on track. 100 out of 100 times I would fail the student that isn't aware of traffic on his butt. We'd also be going into the pits for a cooldown if he was so overloaded that he had zero brain power left to devote situational awareness. That is actually an indicator that their struggling to the point they're actually in danger, cars behind them or not.

Very rarely have I had a student that had trouble with passes, and at no time did I think that specific student should graduate to running solo. I have however worked with them almost always with good results. I tell every frazzled student; We're caught, but there is nothing he can do until the next passing zone so we don't need to pay attention to him at all, and his lap is already ruined, so don't worry about holding him up. (Very very few people are a dick when initially catching a car. The dick driving happens when the car repeatedly refuses to point by and I will almost always encourage that, to a point). Concentrate on what you're doing only and then prepare to let him by at the next passing zone so we can get rid of him. I also say; We're going to let all the cars by behind us on the next straight if possible. I have no idea why instructors only let one car go at a time and want to keep a constant lineup of cars behind their frazzled struggling student. Students like that always drive faster and better with no one behind them, and their lap times are quicker if they use one passing zone to let 3 cars by, rather than every passing zone to let 1 car by, meaning they will be probably getting caught significantly less often.


I will also note while I have never been the slow guy on track with a car except for my first event, I am 100% the guy in over my head in karting right now getting lapped (I am struggling with seating position being very tall and heavy so the kart is very difficult to drive, and physically I am still in over my head with shifter karts so half way through a race my already bad driving goes to hell), and it is quite busy and overwhelming once a field of guys with zero patience or tolerance for crap driving starts passing you. It's 100% a me problem to deal with, not a rest of the field problem.

 

those idiots forget HPDE is not racing. That guy was at fault not you. Each car has to get a pass by sign, and you only gave 1. Advanced group does not immediately mean you have to drive specific time, this guy should be demoted by his reckless overtake attempt

As far as BMW not giving pass by, on the very last corner into the main straight, I would be on his *** going into straight and not the inside, but the outside, driver side, so he could see you. The sooner you get on him the more time he has to give you a pass by

Also, to avoid the train behind you, I would have moved to the right, and let them pass you on left. Then do a drive through pits and back on track to build some distance from those idiots. I hate being followed by someone while doing HPDE. Everyone wants to race. I usually give a pass by and try to stay by myself