Bill L Seifert

Kurt, where did they (ITA #07)finish overall. I heard that two Spec Miatas won, and a Datsun 240Z, ITS got third, and I think he is the one that crashed in the Carrosel, but still got 3rd overall. Wish we hadn't crashed in practice, because all of our problems with the car trace back to that darn crash on the first lap of practice on Thursday. You can't believe how crinkled the front of the car is. Everything I have looked at is bent. It's amazing that we got over 100 laps of practice, and 7 in the race, and the car handled fine.

Geo, early 944 suspension was never an option, the late suspension is so much better, with better rear wheel bearings, etc. I just want to make late offset Fuchs, because I like the look. But if Adam in NC has a good looking wheel, as cheap as he says, that is what I am going to use, I just hate Phone Dials, and they are a pain to change, because my fingers are too big to get the lug nuts on easily.

Bill

Geo

I understand Bill and know that you know. I was just clarifying for others who are not familiar with SCCA IT rules.

I too like the Fuchs. I've been collecting quite a crop of wheels for my car and I'll probably end up selling all the non-Fuchs I have.

Adam Richman

Here's the wee bit I know. Back at the ARRC, OPM Motorsports with the help of a distributor here in the US contacted a British wheel company to make us (ITA folk) 14x7 wheels based on a design they have for Spec Miata. Since there is no minimum weight on these (vs. SM) they came in around 1 lbs more than the Panasport (10.8lbs. IIRC) for the 14x7 4x100 38mm offset but at $134 per wheel. Anyone that wants this wheel for a Honda or Mazda can get them at this price (for another 120 sets).

It got me to thinking how much I wish we had better options w/ the 44s. I spoke to Tom at OPM and Keith at Eurowerks and put Keith in touch w/ him to see if they could come up with the appropriate offset (for best coverage - or offset/spacer combo) and need. The main thrust is that they are going to have to establish these will sell or there is no market to produce them. I would assume the wheel (15x7 5x130) could come in sub 13lbs. and under $200 per judging by what I have here but that's me making an educated guess. Hopefully Keith will have some information as to the feasibility of this but I know they are kinda busy right now.

Kurt, I wasn't aware the Cookie Cutters or Fuchs were close to that weight in a 15x7, thought they were 15lbs. and even used, thought they may be on-par price-wise with what I am talking about. But by all means, if there would be resistance for people buying this sort of thing, then that's probably a good reason against it (and if so, perhaps why someone hasn't done it yet??). I don't want to suggest to anyone involved to even spend the time investigating it if it has no legs.

Bill L Seifert

Adam, if you can get any info, and phone numbers for those wheels let me know. They sound good to me. I favor Fuchs, and I know there is someone, (Atlanta, I believe) than can convert 6 inch Fuchs to 7", and will fit late offset, but I will bet the farm that they will be expensive. The ones you speak of, sound like a good alternative.

Geo,

When I sell the 83 944, I will have some Fuchs left that obviously can't be used on the new car, at least the front. This morning I took two Fuchs 15x7 with 225-50-15 Pilot Sport Cups, and put them on the 944S, and they fit, very close mind you, but they did fit. So with 3 degrees of negative camber, and rolling the inner lip of the fender, they might work. Of course, I will have to try them in race conditions, because I don't want them to rub holes in the tires. Then I would only need to convert the 6" Fuchs to 7", and I would have a full set. Of course I could not rotate them front to rear.

Anyway, if I get rid of the Fuchs after I sell the 83, I will let you know, if you are interested. If you have a set of early 15 x 7 phone dials to get rid of, maybe we can work a trade, I have a friend that actually likes the phone dials. (The boy has no taste)

Bill

Adam Richman

Bill, I think we probably will need to provide to them that indeed there is a market for these wheels between (at a minimum) 944-Cup and ITS and Solo 2 or find out for ourselves that indeed the market consists of you and me so its a bad business idea.

We probably first need to find out if there is enough demand for the wheel. If you know the folks to ask and where to, please do.

If it would help, I have a set of the 14x7s here and if I can find someone w/ a digi camera I'll snap a shot so you have an idea of how it looks. And hey, if its not something folks would want, that's good to know.

BTW, I have no stake in this whatsoever except that I wouldn't mind there being lightweight rims availible for our cars for track stuff.

Geo

I would be interested, yes.

I don't have any phone dials I'm afraid. I have two sets of BBS and one set of cookies as well as two sets of Fuchs. My wife said no more wheels until I get rid of some (I own 49 wheels among all my cars - she's right, I have a wheel problem ).

Tom

What about 16" 7's & 8's that were optiona; for the 944S or is that precluded by IT rules. That opens a larger yhough shrinking number of tire choices. I would be possibly be interested in relatively inexpensive 16" wheels 5x130 acceptable for late offset 944 although my interest is more for street than track use.

Kurt R

Adam I don't want to discourage anyone. There is a market for a light 15x7 wheel in late offset, I'm just not sure how big your market is right now. If Bill gets his 944s finished and it is class leader, and assuming the 944 doesn't get reclassed into ITA, more people will want to build 16v cars and will want wheels.

My Fuchs weigh somewhere between 14 and 15 lbs, all I've got is a crappy bathroom scale to weigh them with. If I cleaned all the brake dust off them they might be lighter. George, have you weighed yours?

I've got a set of Phone Dials I'd swap for cookies or of course Fuchs. 3 way swap - Bill and George?

Bill - they finished 16th overall, 2nd in ITA., 6 laps behind the RX-7.

Mylaps link - 12 hours of Nelson

Tom - IT rules limit us to 7" wheels. 15 are preferable to 16, lighter weight, smaller diameter = faster acceleration.

Bill L Seifert

geo, might be interested in the BBS if they are 7". Let you know when I am selling, I have a friend that wants it for a DE car, so hopefully it will soon, as soon as I get the krinkles out.

Rockfan, I can't believe the RX7 beat him, he was way back at Gingerman.

Adam, most of the 944 Racers I know use an early car, but I will poll them. Do you know anyone with 944 Cup, there are a whole s**t load of them. If you don't know them, I am on their mailing list and I will ask. Hope this can be worked out. Would love to see a picture, if you can do it.

Tom, I will let you know. BTW, SCCA requires either 7x16 or 7x15 even though the cars came with 8's in back and 7's up front. I think the reason is that no other mfg in ITS made 8" wheels, so SCCA made it 7" all round, to be fair, but that is just a guess. It use to be just 15's, but about three years ago, they started letting us use 16's. But because of the tire availability, I think that 15's are the best. Hoosier tells me that I can use 215-40-16's and that will almost duplicate a 225-45-15. I will try that some day, but right now I am concentrating on getting the 944S done.

Thanks everyone,

Bill

Bill L Seifert

geo, might be interested in the BBS if they are 7". Let you know when I am selling, I have a friend that wants it for a DE car, so hopefully it will soon, as soon as I get the krinkles out.

Rockfan, I can't believe the RX7 beat him, he was way back at Gingerman.

Adam, most of the 944 Racers I know use an early car, but I will poll them. Do you know anyone with 944 Cup, there are a whole s**t load of them. If you don't know them, I am on their mailing list and I will ask. Hope this can be worked out. Would love to see a picture, if you can do it.

Tom, I will let you know. BTW, SCCA requires either 7x16 or 7x15 even though the cars came with 8's in back and 7's up front. I think the reason is that no other mfg in ITS made 8" wheels, so SCCA made it 7" all round, to be fair, but that is just a guess. It use to be just 15's, but about three years ago, they started letting us use 16's. But because of the tire availability, I think that 15's are the best. Hoosier tells me that I can use 215-40-16's and that will almost duplicate a 225-45-15. I will try that some day, but right now I am concentrating on getting the 944S done.

Thanks everyone,

Bill

Geo

I'm hoping to blast them tomorrow. They are a bit rough right now. I bought a blast cabinet that will hold wheels and I just recently got it set up.

I think that's a pretty good guess. IT rules were developed over 20 years ago and have evolved slowly since then. When 7" wheels were allowed they were pretty rare. Now they're commonplace. In fact, there are other cars that had optional 8" wide wheels that must stick with 7". It would certainly be easier for me if I could use my 8" Fuchs, but such is not the case.

Bill L Seifert

Geo, That guy that liked the phone dials, likes BBS also. What color, what width? I have a set of 7x15 gold BBS's, but he doesn't like them, he wants silver or black. Course I guess he could paint them.

Bill

Geo

Bill, right now they are silver, but they are in rough shape. I'm hoping to run by Grainger today and pick up some glass beads. As soon as I have the beads I'm going to bead blast them so they will be natural and ready for finishing.

Adam Richman

... better not! There is enough mean-a$$ed **** coming my way as it is :-)

Ok, the number I had heard was 15 lbs. for the 15x7 so I was presuming that 2 lbs. lighter would have folks pretty excited especially at the right price point.

I tried unsuccessfully to take some pics of the wheels here and no longer have the video capture software to convert to an image. I will get a digi picture this weekend and if you and Bill want it to sorta get a feel for folks' interest, I'd be happy to put it out there for you to use.

Bill, I think Keith was suggesting an offset that would fit the later suspension and use a hubcentric spacer for the early (provided I got those right and not reversed). This way it covers both car types and is accessible to more folks. Oh and if you want to share with your 944-Cup email list, please do if you think you can get some idea of interest through them. FWIW, my understanding is that from soup to nuts on the ones they had made for us, it was Nov-June from handshake to the first sets being devlivered.

Bill L Seifert

Geo, keep me posted about the BBS's, Tod (The friend I was telling you about) is interested.

Adam,

I will try to talk to the 944 Cup guys, and let you know. By the way, about 8 months ago, I found some real neat enclosed car trailers in England. They were enclosed, and could be pulled by small cars. I thought they were really neat. My 22 foot Pace enclosed is real heavy, and I get about 8 mpg pulling it. I'll bet if you could order several, they could be sent here. I really think there would be a market for light enclosed trailers. But they would have to be low priced. I know I would love to have one. The only one over here is the Trailex, but that darn thing sells for $14,000. A new 24' enclosed at Trailer World in BWG costs $6,000 complete, so you can buy a heck of a lot of gas for $8,000. Sorry about getting off subject, but the wheel thing reminded of it.

Bill