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If it’s just for DE and not racing, it all comes down to what you like. Blowing people away on the straights or carving up the corners? With that budget, why not Two cars? A well sorted Miata and a LS1 based Corvette. Each has its strengths and weaknesses but give you a different experience and both will make you a better driver. Consumables on the high HP car and reliability and cheap parts on the other.
With a max of $200k to spend on a long-term DE-only car (that would probably get a full cage within the second year), what do you think has the best bend of performance and reliability (other than a P car)?
You buy a truck, trailer, and a purpose built sports car that fits the style you want.
On the top of the list you look at purpose built stuff never designed for the street: Radical, Rush, tube chassis stuff, Stohr, an old star mazda open wheel car, etc. The downside is make sure you can run it at track events in your area as rules vary and some events will not allow these cars with regular street legal cars, while others will. You'll never go as fast for as little as buying one of these cars IMO
2nd option down on the list: If you want to keep it to street looking cars you can buy a factory race/track car like the clubsport, whatever bmw calls their 235 race car they built, a spec miata, etc. There can be service items that are a $$$ problem though if you drive them a lot, like rebuild frequencies on engines and trannies.
3rd option is you buy someone's ex-race car that was already built. You need to expect 1-2 reasons why they are selling it when you buy it that you'll need to sort out but you're buying the modifications and time needed to sort it for pennies on the dollar.
4th open is you build your own car, at great expense, great teething pains of figuring it out, and numerous breakdowns, only to potentially find you ultimately picked the wrong car.
I went with option 4 of course like many , but luckily I made sure I didn't pick the wrong car before I built it and it was quite versatile and competitive. It's a terrible option unless you are very mechanical and are ok spending a year or 2 sorting the car out. I dislike option 2 personally as I feel those cars tend to cost a lot to own and maintain to not go very fast. Option 1 I am a big fan of, but you really gotta be in the right region that lets you play with them, or know the right people that let you use them when you normally wouldn't be allowed to. Option 3 can be decent, but it's really more geared towards going racing as the cars aren't built to be fast, but built to be fast in a class which is totally different.... but often it's a very good starting point as functionality and handling should be sorted and you can just mod for power or areo as you see fit if it's a DE car.
Nothing is reliable realistically if its on a race track. It'll all require wrenching. People claim go buy a honda if you want a reliable race car, but man, the people I know racing hondas have major problems and go through engines like crazy. Mazda miatas are generally pretty solid cars, but slow powerwise. I run a rotary which is notorious for unreliability, and put 10000km on my current race engine, but went through 2 engines and probably 3-4 transmissions in it's history so technically it's really reliable as a race car, but again, no power.
^^ What he say!
Will you be trailering it to the track? Or will you be driving it?
Some advantages to having a street legal race car, even if you never use it for that.
Pure track, or street use too?
If it will be mixed use between the two, there will be compromises drawn between both ends...
If you’re going to put a cage in it anyway, why not get a factory built race car? There is nothing more reliable than those, as they’ve been thoroughly tested by the manufacturer.
Thanks for the suggestion. The two problems with this are (1) there are no race shops anywhere near me that could fix the things that I can't fix. I do have a automotive repair background but I don't have the skills to do any deep-deep work.
But the bigger issue that is factory race cars have little to no "please save me" options.Yeah, I've been told I'll never learn to really drive 10/10ths if I leave the nannies turned on. I have no desire to drive that hard and I've wrecked a car at the track in the past. I'm not chasing lap times and the nannies let me enjoy the car more.
If it’s just for DE and not racing, it all comes down to what you like. Blowing people away on the straights or carving up the corners? With that budget, why not Two cars? A well sorted Miata and a LS1 based Corvette. Each has its strengths and weaknesses but give you a different experience and both will make you a better driver. Consumables on the high HP car and reliability and cheap parts on the other.
I like the way you think, but no go on the Miata. I've been a passenger in a few on track and it just seemed too anemic. Could have been the driver though! Frankly, I'm just not a Corvette kind of person and they tend to be a bit of a handful at speed if I recall correctly.
You buy a truck, trailer, and a purpose built sports car that fits the style you want.
On the top of the list you look at purpose built stuff never designed for the street: Radical, Rush, tube chassis stuff, Stohr, an old star mazda open wheel car, etc. The downside is make sure you can run it at track events in your area as rules vary and some events will not allow these cars with regular street legal cars, while others will. You'll never go as fast for as little as buying one of these cars IMO
2nd option down on the list: If you want to keep it to street looking cars you can buy a factory race/track car like the clubsport, whatever bmw calls their 235 race car they built, a spec miata, etc. There can be service items that are a $$$ problem though if you drive them a lot, like rebuild frequencies on engines and trannies.
3rd option is you buy someone's ex-race car that was already built. You need to expect 1-2 reasons why they are selling it when you buy it that you'll need to sort out but you're buying the modifications and time needed to sort it for pennies on the dollar.
4th open is you build your own car, at great expense, great teething pains of figuring it out, and numerous breakdowns, only to potentially find you ultimately picked the wrong car.
I went with option 4 of course like many , but luckily I made sure I didn't pick the wrong car before I built it and it was quite versatile and competitive. It's a terrible option unless you are very mechanical and are ok spending a year or 2 sorting the car out. I dislike option 2 personally as I feel those cars tend to cost a lot to own and maintain to not go very fast. Option 1 I am a big fan of, but you really gotta be in the right region that lets you play with them, or know the right people that let you use them when you normally wouldn't be allowed to. Option 3 can be decent, but it's really more geared towards going racing as the cars aren't built to be fast, but built to be fast in a class which is totally different.... but often it's a very good starting point as functionality and handling should be sorted and you can just mod for power or areo as you see fit if it's a DE car.
Nothing is reliable realistically if its on a race track. It'll all require wrenching. People claim go buy a honda if you want a reliable race car, but man, the people I know racing hondas have major problems and go through engines like crazy. Mazda miatas are generally pretty solid cars, but slow powerwise. I run a rotary which is notorious for unreliability, and put 10000km on my current race engine, but went through 2 engines and probably 3-4 transmissions in it's history so technically it's really reliable as a race car, but again, no power.
Thanks for taking time to post this. I still have my ATC trailer sitting in the yard and my tow vehicle is a Tundra.
I hadn't heard of Rush (though the band is simply brilliant, RIP Neil), but Radical was on a short list for me until I found that some PCA and BMWCCA clubs won't let them or Ariel cars at the events. But those cars don't have nannies and I probably need/want them. And I don't have a place to get those cars sorted out, repaired, or serviced.
^^ What he say!
Will you be trailering it to the track? Or will you be driving it?
Some advantages to having a street legal race car, even if you never use it for that.
Pure track, or street use too?
If it will be mixed use between the two, there will be compromises drawn between both ends...
Yup. Already have a tow vehicle and still have my old trailer ready to go. I don't think I would care to put a track car on the street. Did that with my 997. With the harnesses, suspension, and racing seats, it was unbearable anywhere but on track.
.... With the harnesses, suspension, and racing seats, it was unbearable anywhere but on track.
That's one of the compromises trying for a dual purpose setup... IMO, a cage is pretty much the point of no return for trying to use it on the street.
Wise to dedicate it for the track, but it is nice to keep it street legal anyway.
Mechanical issues? You can drive it around to see if it's fixed before you waste the time trailering it to the track.
The compromise in my Z06 is the other way. It's still comfortable on the street, but much too fast on the track to be without a cage/harnesses/etc.
I know people track faster cars (not by much...) with nothing but a factory belt. Again just my opinion, but that is courting disaster.
Buy one of the newer Camaros. They are amazing track weapons and the computers do everything you want them to do. And you could cage it and be way under your budget.
Thanks for the suggestion. The two problems with this are (1) there are no race shops anywhere near me that could fix the things that I can't fix. I do have a automotive repair background but I don't have the skills to do any deep-deep work.
But the bigger issue that is factory race cars have little to no "please save me" options.Yeah, I've been told I'll never learn to really drive 10/10ths if I leave the nannies turned on. I have no desire to drive that hard and I've wrecked a car at the track in the past. I'm not chasing lap times and the nannies let me enjoy the car more.
Just for info- the 718 GT4 Clubsports have the driver aid systems: ABS, ESC, TC. You can switch off ESC and TC. ABS is adjustable too. As for support you can have a Porsche dealer or indy shop do service. You have to trailer the car to the location though. You also have access to Porsche Motorsport tech support for questions and parts.
Just for info- the 718 GT4 Clubsports have the driver aid systems: ABS, ESC, TC. You can switch off ESC and TC. ABS is adjustable too. As for support you can have a Porsche dealer or indy shop do service. You have to trailer the car to the location though. You also have access to Porsche Motorsport tech support for questions and parts.
Buy one of the newer Camaros. They are amazing track weapons and the computers do everything you want them to do. And you could cage it and be way under your budget.
The Camaro and the Mustang have been on my mind for awhile. I have a Chevy dealer about a 45 minute drive from here and though I've never been there, their service department has a phenomenal reputation. Even closer is an independent Ford shop with which I've had many great experiences when I've needed help on a family member's car. But I've questioned reliability in these two cars... especially with track use. May be that is unfounded. Do I dare to ask a question about track reliability on a Camaro forum?
What I'm gradually distilling from all this is that I probably need a car where I can get some dealership or independent support since there are no race shops in the area. The closest P dealerships to me are quite a hike to get to and frankly, I can't say that I've had many good experiences with either of them. And after all these years of P cars in my shop and my garage, I've grown tired of the dealerships and thus, the brand.
I want to reiterate though that I love the Porsche driving and tracking experience. It was immeasurably enjoyable. It's owning a P car (with all the dealership disappointments, and the ludicrous parts costs) that is just too intolerable at this point of my life.
Just for info- the 718 GT4 Clubsports have the driver aid systems: ABS, ESC, TC. You can switch off ESC and TC. ABS is adjustable too. As for support you can have a Porsche dealer or indy shop do service. You have to trailer the car to the location though. You also have access to Porsche Motorsport tech support for questions and parts.
Thanks for pointing that out. Good to know. Unfortunately, I don't have a good dealership or independent close enough to be worth going to. I called the closest one two weeks ago during business hours and left a message asking for help with a part number (that I would have ordered from them). They never called back. Called again, left a friendly message, and... crickets. The service manager seems inapproachable to me, often requiring that I speak to him through gate keepers who have been way less than friendly and routinely unhelpful. My thought is that they only help customers write a check and I kind of got tired of it.
you can read about track experience with the 6gen Camaro here: CAMARO6 - Powered by vBulletin. There is a sub forum for track discussion and also for the 1LE package. I have tracked a SS 1LE a few times and it has been solid. There are multiple settings for the drivers aid and there is the track app PDR as an option though mine doesn't have it. For me the cars size and weight is noticeable vs Porsches, but it is pretty quick the six speed is nice and it sounds great. it goes through tires and brake pads quickly as might be expected.
Edit, if considering Mustang the last gen Mach 1 or the current Dark Horse, with the handling package (HP) would be the way to go imo. Check out YouTube for videos around NCM by Andy Pilgrim. He has quite a few including the SS 1LE. Randy Pobst did a comparison for the Camaro and Mustang a while back too.
09-29-2024, 11:30 PM
, but luckily I made sure I didn't pick the wrong car before I built it and it was quite versatile and competitive. It's a terrible option unless you are very mechanical and are ok spending a year or 2 sorting the car out. I dislike option 2 personally as I feel those cars tend to cost a lot to own and maintain to not go very fast. Option 1 I am a big fan of, but you really gotta be in the right region that lets you play with them, or know the right people that let you use them when you normally wouldn't be allowed to. Option 3 can be decent, but it's really more geared towards going racing as the cars aren't built to be fast, but built to be fast in a class which is totally different.... but often it's a very good starting point as functionality and handling should be sorted and you can just mod for power or areo as you see fit if it's a DE car.
