The quality of a student's driving is inversely proportional to the greasiness and volume of food consumed at lunch by the instructor sitting right seat.

If the instructor has a salad, the driver is smooth. If the instructor has a chili dog, the driver is fast and erratic.

 

Not true. But you should race within your means. 18 years of track driving here. Road racing since 2010 or so. I have never made contact with another car except for people ramming me on the straights from behind in anger. My car was hit while parked once. I also put an open wheel car into a wall once (but I knew what I was doing was dumb before I crashed). And until recently I have always driven every lap like it's gotta be my fastest lap ever. Thousands and thousands of laps done so pretty low risk. I've seen very very few accidents in that entire time so it is quite rare to see an incident that ends in a car being damaged. Probably 4 things to up your confidence that you can do without changing who you are:

1) Make the car consistent so you can trust it. That means 200tw tires so every lap is roughly the same, but you'll want ones that don't heat cycle out fast like michelin cup2s do. You'll probably want something like hankook rs4s starting out; not the fastest lap time in that class, but they last a long time and are pretty good for consistency I found. You'll want good brake fluid, 500F or plus should be good enough and dont need to buy expensive stuff. You'll want to change it yearly or sooner, but yearly is probably good enough. You'll also want better brake pads than OE, something like a like duty race pad. carbo tech xp8s, hawk blues or even lower, probably not ferodo 2500s, but the next step up, etc. A real race pad, not a 'Street/track' pad. You can usually get away with just the fronts and run a street pad in the rear as the raer brake pads do not generate a lot of heat to overheat a street pad. YOu'll want to make sure the car doesn't overheat too so you may need to add more cooling; better ducting, a bigger rad, etc.

2) as much instruction as possible. Lots of free instruction out there, and most of us instructors are in an endless loop teaching green group guys the basics for most events. Ask if you can get an instructor for as long as possible. It's not that you need it to learn (I didn't) but you'll advance far quicker than without, and you'll probably learn stuff you never have even thought about. I tell students information on day one that I didn't understand the concept of until I was probably 8 years or so into racing.

3) Use vision, markers. Look as far ahead as possible so you're not driving off your hood. This will eliminate surprises where you overcook a corner and find out you're going too fast half way through the corner. Use markers like crazy. A tuff of grass, a smudge on the track, a cone, etc. Use markers for braking and turn in, and anything else that helps, especially at the end of major straights and significant corners. If you know you braked at the 3 marker last time and still made the corner with room to spare, you can make a mental note brake at 3 + 3 feet next lap and until you find a marker you're barely making the corner but can still trust you'll always make the corner, if your car is consistent (point 1). Having that kind of confidence shaves off a lot of time. Same with turn in. If you turn in at 1 foot pass the tuff of grass everytime, but find out 5 corners later you're blowing every corner by a foot or so because your tires are on the way out, you can make a mental note '1-2 feet before the tuff of grass turn in, or brake 1-2 feet earlier to lower the speed slighly more before the corner turn in.

4) seat time as you said. More seat time should = better driving, to a point. If you ever find you're struggling just go back to basics. forget everything you know and start fresh. Run a proper line, hitting apexes properly, work on relearning brake markers and turn in markers, and then up your speed back up. If someone is sucking and hitting a big block with their driving it's probably a problem with them doing beginner stuff wrong but ignoring that fact thinking they need to work on something advanced. I went back to working on the basics many times and it always helped reset myself and I always set significantly better personal bests doing so after having hit a figurative wall with my driving.



As for personal issues wiht confidence. If you are timid, or have mental issues pushing the car, try different instructors until you find one that helps in this aspect. However, there are definitely some people out there who have no business being on a track and shouldn't force it. You can also try different tracks. A track you do 260kph on into a fast sweeper surrounded by cement walls is a bit different than one with corners at 60-80kph with a top speedo f 180kph or so with fields everywhere on the edge of the track.

 

All good advice, but I tell people all the time that they don't control the makeup of the group in experience, tires, mods or car potential.

Work on yourself and focus forward.

While it's important to be aware of what is around you spatially, and be able to develop the ability to determine how much time and distance will elapse before the speck in your mirror will become something that needs to be accommodated, it's a mistake to become preoccupied with "not holding people up."

It's YOUR racetrack just as much as anyone else's and it is the responsibility of the car(s) coming up behind to safely overtake.

Doesn't take away from your responsibility to note their presence and point them by at the next designated passing zone or when the wheels are straight, depending on the event protocol, but note their presence with a glance, NOT a gaze, then look forward and take care of yourself.

Chin is typically an org where the group's relative speed is higher than most marque club and casual track days, so be aware.

Also be aware that as you gather intelligence on the cars that are "fast" or "slow" in the group first or second session out, that that may or may not change as the day goes on and people gain comfort and confidence. Just important not to buttonhole other driver's capabilities based on limited time on track with them.

 

Thanks for the advice , on your #1 here, we are totally on the same page . RS4s, Ferrodo 3.12 , Sebro rotors , GTS with 3 radiator , RBF 600 fluid with 6 month flush ( per my the PCA region tech requirements )

 

This is an important observation, and I'll add to it that sometimes it isn't just that the driver is improving throughout the day. There are plenty of people, my wife and I included, that share a car. So from session to session there might be significant differences in the same car.

 

Another great observation. And this is why I run a BBK, even though I *could* get away with GiroDisc (or even Sebro) rotors, etc. I want the brake pedal to be the same with every application, even when my wife and I double stint in back-to-back 30-minute sessions.

 

RS4 - do not use it unless you just want "laps" It's a GTS and the RS4 will have so much slip that ESC/TC will be intervening when it shouldn't because the car was designed for a grippier tire. Step up to something else that will give you more laps, say the Conti ECF, or Falken RT660, RE71RS. Yes it might be more tire than you need right now at your current skill, but the RS4 is just subpar.

You can use trackdaytire.com code LGRVIP for almost any tire they sell, amazing discounts.

 

I would offer that if you are tracking somewhat hard, the 6 month brake fluid window might be a bit long. With the FCP Euro program, get good high temp fluid and learn to flush it yourself. I change at the start of the season and at the midpoint (usually about 5 days on fluid) It is cheap insurance and worth your time invested.

 

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Ha! That's me coming out of the Bus Stop and going through the Carousel at WGI with foot to floor and trusting that the car will stick all the way around when the rear feels like it wants to go Big smile when the car finally releases straight to the left-side curb down the hill. Trust is big.....

OP, lots of great advice on here from people much more well-versed than I am, read and heed

 

The goal for every beginner should not be speed and/or lap times, it should be consistency. Be able to do the same lap on repeat with very little variation no matter how slow it is. That will make things feel much more "predictable" and by extension less anxiety, etc. Then start making incremental adjustments from there to get faster.

 

Lots of great advice here. Your general question/concern is not that much different than for me, so I appreciate you asking it. I remember meeting you at the Potomac event at VIR back in April.

When permitted, with an instructor who is comfortable in your car, ride in your right seat with him/her driving. I have done this a couple times and found it to be very useful in gaining a better sense of what your car can do and what its limits are (without reaching them). It should be made clear that your instructor will be driving somewhere around 7/10 or 8/10. Good helmet communication will ensure you are comfortable with the pace and hearing what the instructor is doing. Suggest you only do this with an instructor that you know well. The times I have done it I actually feel quite calm because I trust the instructor and know they are not pushing the limit.

I concur with one post about a recommendation for the Falken RT660. They have a great wear and grip combination at a decent price point. I have switched around on tires and find these probably the best without blowing the bank.

Here's a few things I think I have learned at Summit that have worked for me. Many guys here know all this and much more. Apologies if any are obvious for you already. I did watch your video a few times. I have a 2005 997.1 C2S and have 22 track days at SPM.

• Straight line braking, especially into T1: I have also had a wiggly rear , and it helped for me to apply a very slight ramp up to threshold braking level in order to help settle the car and all four tires before max brake. I think Peter said it best in his post.
• Work on trailing brake more into T1 by gradually pushing your brake point back and finish releasing brake as far into the turn as you can. I think you should check your Vmin levels to see how well this is working.
• Coming down the hill into T5, be sure to apply initial brake before the crest. I was waiting too long and the car didn't like brake onset at a crest. Unsettling.
• In your video I saw the same overbraking into/thru T5 that I see on other cars that I know can go much faster through there. Your Vmin was at least 10 mph lower than I think it could be. I think this is one turn where courage shouldn't be a limiting factor since the speed is low and runoff is plenty. Your T5 exit speed seemed to kill you into the rest of the carousel. Your car should eat up T5 and the carousel. I do think your line for T7-T9 looked good.
• Not sure but it seemed like you drifted right coming to the bridge and then back left for T10 turn-in. I try to be more middle bridge with a straight wheel as much as possible from T9.

I had a thread asking for help with the carousel at SPM. Very helpful responses in there. Carousel at Summit Point Main - Thoughts to Optimize? - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Lots of excellent advice in numerous posts here. I have read through a few times. Thanks!!

Good luck!

 

@ANGST Do you get track insurance? It helps me to feel more relaxed. As an instructor - I typically decline driving anyone else’s car on track. I know plenty who are willing but I am not comfortable taking on that liability. Some track insurance allows you to include your instructor on the policy. I might consider driving someone else’s car under those circumstances. In the rare cases where I’ve agreed to drive, I’ve had a discussion with the car’s owner before we go out to be sure we understand who is responsible for the cost of a repair if something happens when I’m driving their car. As said above, I would only drive someone else’s car around 7/10 and would be especially careful/conservative - but stuff happens and it’s best to understand BEFORE you go out so there are no surprises if the worst case happens (which is not at all likely….but still…).

I always offer to take my student for a ride in my car, and most find it to be very helpful. But I understand the thinking behind wanting someone else to drive your car. I agree with the advice that it should be someone you know and trust, and it’s best if they drive the same or similar model to the car you’re driving.

 

Given the instructors and professional coaches that I've seen crash client cars (only one of which had the coach listed on the policy), I would not recommend having others drive your car. Even less if the instructor offers or heaven forbid insists that they drive yours to "show you." Sheesh.

If they want to take you in their car, fine.

Everyone has a different 7/10...

 

Always get my track insurance from @Steve113