Bill - Chicago

Does anyone know the differences between an 03 and 04 cupcar? Also I heard the 05 are going to be the same as the 04. Is that true?

Is there a Technik for cupcars?

Eric in Chicago

Cant answer your question Bill, but I think I am winning the pool, 3 months unitl Bill orders a Cup Car and gets back into racing...

Glen

Bill, not much difference at all. The 04 seems quite a bit stronger at the dyno than the 03 even though both are rated at 390hp. All the 05's are sold already but I do know where a used 04, new 04 and new 05's can be purchased.

Dbltime

Interesting that at the Watkins Glen Club race the 3 fastest 996cups were all '04's in a big field. In the race a 04 was first but 2nd and 3rd were not as I recall.

Bill - Chicago

I have been offered to buy a new 05 already, but was looking to save some money thus looking at a low engine hour 03. Glen can you PM me with your source for an 04? Thanks.

Does anyone have a list of specific changes for the 04?

Mike in Chi

Eric
Did anyone have less than three months in the pool?

MJR911

No offense to PCA drivers, but if you look at the list of winners from last weekend's race at Indy, it may make sense that PCA isn't the best guage of cup car performance. For example, Dominik Farnbacher who KILLED every car at Sebring in a new cup couldn't break the top 10 at Indy. Another example is Tim Rosengrandt, who is a podium driver in PCA but couldn't break top 15 at Indy.

Therefore, it may make sense that the o4s make more power, but a PCA driver may not be extracting that last few percent to use the advantage over a well prepared 00-03. Also, the earlier ones could be rebuilt to "better than factory" specs? who knows!

DJF1

I was thinking the same when Bill posted that he sold his RS, got out of the racing scene for a while and got a 'street' GT3...

JC in NY

Changes between '03 and '04 GT3 Cup are very minor and include:

1. '04 has plastic ventilated rear quarter windows like the old 911R
2. Harness system modified to work with HANS
3. Slight modifications to roll cage to meet FIA requirements
4. Pit lane speed limiter built-in
5. Cool air duct for intake

Really nothing significant.

Bruce P

Mitch - Dominick flew into Indy this year very late on Thursday evening and his first time on the track EVER was for qualifying. He wound up in the gravel and had to start last. If you look at how he has done at other Supercup races you will see he is very capable of running in the front. Just my 2 cents worth but I am following him closely as he could be a shining star in a few years. He is currently 19 years old!

Dbltime

I had no idea we had PCA racers running with the big dogs. That is pretty impressive that Steve Johnson was 11 seconds behind the winner. Steve was in a instructed driver in DE less than two years ago. Admittedly he has been working 24/7 on his skills with some impressive finishes. Tim Rosengrandt (SP) won Watkins Glen and is new to 996 Cup racing as far as I know. He campaigned a 993 cup for years in PCA.

Glen

I just placed the used 04 so it is gone. I do have a line on an 02 with numerous 04 upgrades and can still try to help on the new 04 and 05's. Thanks for the interest, Bill You have a PM.

Bruce, I had some friends running at Indy and they said Dominik didnt even get there until friday eve because of school in Germany. He is a talent for sure!

MJR911

Bruce,
I wasn't knocking Farnbacher, rather showing the spread there is between great drivers, even better ones and the BEST (with myself not on the scale!). Believe me, it was a treat to watch Dominik the last two years at the Sebring club race.

Greg Fishman

What about when Marco Werner (Champion Audi R8 driver) drove a Cup car at the Sebring Race a year or two ago? He was at least a couple seconds faster than the next fastest Cup car.

The difference between the top level pros and top level amateurs/entry level pros is pretty significant.

ldw

The 04 car has a significantly different torque specification within the differential (the ramps are the same angles) than the 03, the chassis is stiffer, the motor despite being listed as 390, makes more power than the 03, has completely different motor internals than previous years, and has better drivability which makes it quicker off the corner. The 04 car is quicker than the 03 at circuits of 1:30-1:50 lap times by 1-2 seconds than even the 03, and this time differential is larger when compared to earlier years.

In Tim's defense and the other PCA drivers at Indy, they had never raced the circuit before and there was limited track time so the issue of no practice that applied to Dominik, also applied to the PCA drivers. The PCA drivers also are likely not taking the risks that the supercup regulars are both given the financials involved and goals. DF has done very well in European supercup and hence he has proven his ability to run in front and his not being able to do so in Indy, proves how difficult the circuit is to master for the inexperienced. Indy is very different than almost all other road courses in that it has a banking that is daunting-especially if the car is not set up exactly right for it. It is NOT like Daytona where it is simply flat out with ease.

At the WG PCA race two weekends ago, Tim R., Chris Wally and Paul Orwicz all turned qualifying times in the 2:00 flat range in 2004 cup cars. These are extremely impressive lap times for cup cars. Tim, Chris and Paul all know WG very well which was different than the indy situation. The fastest ever documented lap times in cup cars at WG were done by Randy Pobst this year in Grand Am qualifying at a 1:58.6 and JF Doumoulin in 2000. It is likely that Randy would be a bit quicker if on non Grand Am spec Hoosier slicks and without the ballast bringing the car up to 2700 from the low 2600 range. Jf Doumolin turned a 1:58.6 in a stock 2000 cup car in the 6 hr WG Grand Am race in 2000. The only modification to that car was shocks and no cats. Randy and JF are considered 2 of the best sports car drivers in North America. Given the circumstances in Indy,despite the lap times, the PCA guys did pretty well, considering they were competing against several drivers who would be able to be on an F1 grid if given the opportunity.

Some of the final differential times from one of the indy races make the cars appear close. This was becasue the race finished under yelllow.