Jas0nn

I would love at TA2 car - congrats!

jdistefa

Like in a hookers, blow... and TA2 car kinda way.

gbuff

Now that I think about it, Matt, I do recall seeing the "TA2" stickers on the Mustangs, and I don't recall it raining (which is amazing as it rained a ton at the Glen all year when I was there.)

ProCoach

Umm, no. They’re both fast, have similar vMax’s, similar vMins and almost identical in lap times, at least at VIR.

Also, when “run in the edge,” the TA2 car is about the same as the 991.2 GT3 Cup, when piloted by the most talented drivers of each, again at VIR.

I can count on two hands the number of people capable of driving TA2 cars (and 991.2/992 GT3 Cup cars) on the ragged edge.

I agree it would be cheaper for a club level driver to run the TA2 car. But that goes for just about any car.

Here is the lap time data:

claykos

I'm going to agree with both of you. I have not driven a 991 or 992, but the "feel" is very different than my 996R. The vmin and vmax is almost identical. I have gone a couple seconds faster at this track in my R - but that is down to seat time and familiarity. I suspect overall lap time will be similar with the ta2 perhaps a bit quicker than my 996R (which makes sense since it is not as fast as a 991).

my observations relative to my 996 are:

Ta2 more forgiving due to longer wheel base and wider track. Rotation at the limit slower and more gradual.

Power delivery is easier and more linear in ta2. The diff (Gleason) is great and there is not a big change in balance on or off throttle. You have to time throttle pickup very carefully in my 996 to avoid inducing mid corner understeer. This car is more forgiving if you are a little early getting back in the gas.

Brakes are not as good as the P-car. Which is to be expected given size. They slow the car well but do not have that immediate snap of deceleration when you hammer the pedal. This may be the pads on my particular car. Not sure what they are.

Visibility sucks. You are low and very far back. The rear window is tiny. I plan to install a rear camera. The RF corner is in another county and you can't see it at all. I got used to it pretty quick but it's weird.

Starting from a stop sucks. I am used to a 5.5" clutch, but with the 1.75 first gear it's basically impossible to drive around the paddock without being an *******. Lots of wheel spin and high revs, then dip the clutch and roll around....

ProCoach

Good comparison on the "feel."

As far as overall performance, remarkably similar and hence, the TA2 car provides serious value.

claykos

Regarding costs - I looked into this pretty thoroughly as it was a big part of my decision and I was also looking at 997 cups. The TA2 is not as cheap as you'd think, but there a few significant running cost savings over a cup. As with anything, it depends on how hard you are going to run the car and how diligent you are going to be with the maintenance. Running a top flight TA2 pro season is not cheap, but will be significantly cheaper than an IMSA GT3 cup season. At the club level, there is going to be huge variation person to person. My impression is the TA2 is much less forgiving to deferred maintenance and really requires fairly constant attention if you are running it hard. It is not as robustly engineered as a factory Porsche race car (which is obvious when you think about the development budgets). Bolts loosen up, fittings leak, wheel bearings need regular attention, etc etc. Also they generate A LOT of HEAT which wears things out. Apparently alternators are known to fail, plug wires burn up, etc. I would not recommend one of these cars if you don't like to tinker or have very good help to take care of it. They are dirt simple, but require attention. I am always surprised how much abuse and lack of maintenance a cup car will take, especially if it is not driven 10/10ths. I don't think you could run a TA2 car at the track by yourself without a lot of headache. Cup car is pretty easy if you take care of it well between events.

The major cost saving for the TA2 are:

Tires - the series Pirelli radials are cost controlled and much much cheaper than the 18 inch sizes.
Gearbox and rear end: $500-1000 for a refresh vs 10-20k for a cup sequential.
Bodywork - not planning on it, but it is obviously much cheaper than a cup
Anything if it breaks or you hit something - (suspension parts, etc all like <$100 per arm).

The surprisingly not that cheap:
Engine - if you want to keep it TA2 legal it's about $10-12k for a refresh and should be done every 2000-3000 miles according to the top builders. On a per hour basis, I think this is about a wash with a cup which runs twice as long and costs twice as much. You can obviously rebuild the TA2 engine (which is just a normal LS3 with a dry sump) MUCH cheaper and run longer if you are not concerned with running the series.

Brakes - much cheaper than a cup but wear rate much higher, so again kind of a wash. Probably still cheaper than a cup a rotors are $250 a corner and pads $250 an axle.

In a nutshell - you wanna go fast, you're gonna pay up. I think of a TA2 as lots of small checks at high frequency - like the old joke about boiling a frog....Cup car is lots of big checks at slightly reduced frequency.

Hope this helps folks!

fatbillybob

Where will you run this car? Some of those cars run with SCCA Calclub I think in GT1. If that can work for you they need the car counts. BRP has a new track. We should start racing it early 2023.

M13S

​​​​​​​they add weight and run in GT2 in SCCA for club, majors and super tour.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​having been on track with my 997.1 GT3 cup they are very similar in times and will tend to walk my 997 on longer straights. I have several friends with TA2 cars and they love them. The car moves around underneath you and it takes a bit to get used to driving them. ​​​​​​​I think its the fastest growing spec series and car counts are growing ​​. At TA races there is 40 to 50 + cars and no matter where you are on track your racing in a pack like spec miata's. ​​​​​​​they look cool, they sound bad *** and the top 15 in a TA2 battle like no other. I enjoy watching them and it's a great spec series.

claykos

I will run with NASA and/or another local club while I learn the car. Maybe an SCCA (think GT2 as mentioned above) event or two but it seems like the car counts are very low - I have never raced SCCA so it's yet another license to buy..... Longer team I would like to do some of the West Coast TA races and maybe the combined East/West TA race at COTA, but that won't happen until minimum second half of next year.

Maybe I'll just take it to PCA DE's and scare people in their GT3s :-) - seems totally reasonable given people over in the cup car forum are talking about 992 cups and Rs for DE....

M13S

SCCA GT2 class

TA2 car for SCCA = 2950 pounds
997.1 GT3 cup = 2800 pounds

claykos

Got the car out this weekend for a local Club Race at the new Attesa Podium Club track in Casa Grande. Here is my best lap from a practice session. Getting used to it....if only tires weren't on back-order!

LuigiVampa

I've watched these cars race at Lime Rock several times and they all seem to "slide" around the track. I was watching them come out of West Bend and they seemed to have a lot of sideways movement. Almost like an old 911.

What can you say about their handling characteristics?

I love watching the TA races - they look like a blast to drive.

ProCoach

Agreed, LV! They look great!

When peddled quickly, they're pretty neutral. i.e. the diesirable slip angles front and rear are similar.

The top TA2 driver drive to that slip angle and the car is neutral enough to sustain it, if the driver is proactive enough with the throttle.

Matt Romanowski

I would not say that description of the top TA2 drivers is really accurate. Plus, there are 3 different chassis that have different characteristics. All of them are well behaved, but they have different strengths. Some have more positive front ends, some more positive rear ends, and it doesn't take very large changes to change the characteristics of them.

TA2 cars are a great value and some of the best racing available. Seeing what the top drivers are capable of is really fun.