Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Nobody has commented on today's F1???

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-12-2021 | 04:59 PM
  #1  
Veloce Raptor's Avatar
Veloce Raptor
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41,949
Likes: 1,817
From: Carjackistan
Default Nobody has commented on today's F1???

Popular Reply

12-13-2021, 05:08 PM
LuigiVampa's Avatar
LuigiVampa
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,135
Likes: 4,656
From: PCA Gulag
Default

Masi committed two “sins” and the most apparent sin is that he vacillated on letting lapped cars through, but in the end, that decision did not hurt Mercedes or work in favor of Red Bull.

Mercedes was never going to pit under a safety car because they would have given up track position. That call was clearly made and discussed over the radio. They gambled that the race was most liekly going to finish under the safety car.

Masi should have allowed all the cars to unlap themselves once the safety car was out on track but for some reason originally said no. The lapped cars would be given blue flags, but by the time Max got past them all, Lewis would be down the road. This would have been a patently unfair result for Max and Red Bull persuaded Masi to let cars past. That was the right call. The problem is that there was not enough time to let all the cars past so the decision was made to let just five cars to unlap and allow one lap of racing.

Who did this hurt? Only the cars which were not allowed to unlap.

Any car which was not allowed to unlap was denied the opportunity to overtake the cars which were allowed to unlap, thereby costing them points. I have not figured out who was in what position, but assuming no one was two laps down, the sixth car unable to unlap was really screwed over.

Whether Masi allowed all the cars to unlap if the call had been made early on, or 5 cars to unlap with a late call, did not hurt Mercedes or Red Bull. Both would have ended with Max right behind Lewis.

I also think it was disingenuous of Toto to radio Masi and ask for no safety car. You either need one or you don’t and that is based on the safety of the drivers and marshals. That was a horrible radio call to hear and went beyond mere lobbying.

The bottom line is that both Mercedes and Red Bull made strategy calls based on the information they had, knowing that there were a lot of variables, and Mercedes got it wrong. There should be no asterisk by Max’s WDC and the FIA did not hand him the win. Mercedes were unlucky with their call.

What should have happened, as others have stated here, was to red flag the race. Both Hamilton and Max would have come in, switched to new soft tires, and we would have been treated to the best five laps in F1 history to decide a WDC. That would have been fair to both drivers and removed the FIA from helping or hurting one team or another. This is Masi’s primary sin. He should have allowed the race to finish on equitable terms.

There were many unlucky occurrences during the race year, in addition to many questionable calls by the race stewards, all of which went into a tie in points at the end of this year. We could just as easily fixate on something which happened months ago, which cost either driver some points, and thus had a bearing on the outcome of this season. The fact that there was a call made in the final lap doesn’t make it any more of less important in the grand scheme of things.

Lastly, I will say that while I have always been a huge fan of Hamilton’s driving, and less a fan of some of his political positions, I do think he showed a TREMENDOUS amount of class at the end of the race. He showed a tremendous amount of maturity and I think he earned himself many converts. It was hard not to feel sorry for him. In the end I think he was just unlucky.
Old 12-12-2021 | 05:04 PM
  #2  
boisenelson's Avatar
boisenelson
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 855
Likes: 181
From: Southwest Idaho
Default

Check this thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/off-topi...2021-a-86.html
Old 12-12-2021 | 05:11 PM
  #3  
LuigiVampa's Avatar
LuigiVampa
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 15,135
Likes: 4,656
From: PCA Gulag
Default

Both Lewis and I have now lost a driver's championship on the last lap of the last race. He was more graceful than I was.
The following 2 users liked this post by LuigiVampa:
Brainofjjj (12-12-2021), Veloce Raptor (12-12-2021)
Old 12-12-2021 | 05:20 PM
  #4  
DTMiller's Avatar
DTMiller
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 337
From: Summit Point, probably
Default

Max*
Old 12-12-2021 | 05:28 PM
  #5  
jbossolo's Avatar
jbossolo
Drifting
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,097
Likes: 7
From: The great Republic of Texas
Default

That was messed up, IMO.
Old 12-12-2021 | 05:55 PM
  #6  
coss1600's Avatar
coss1600
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 233
Likes: 14
Default

Thank you masi for giving us a new champion
The following 2 users liked this post by coss1600:
Brainofjjj (12-12-2021), thebishman (12-13-2021)
Old 12-12-2021 | 06:04 PM
  #7  
ProCoach's Avatar
ProCoach
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,278
Likes: 3,482
From: Durham, NC and Virginia International Raceway
Default

Let the crying begin.

There is so much more to this year than isolated calls from race control.

I think both drivers were exceptional, driving each other to leave NO margin in the quest for victory.

The first time in forty-seven years the title protagonists were tied going into the last race. Only the second time ever.

Good stuff, and they didn't take each other out!
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway






















The following 5 users liked this post by ProCoach:
bccars (12-14-2021), Jnelso (12-12-2021), Mike Roblin (12-12-2021), PiB993 (12-13-2021), Veloce Raptor (12-12-2021)
Old 12-12-2021 | 07:17 PM
  #8  
mglobe's Avatar
mglobe
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,839
Likes: 120
From: Houston
Default

The FIA race stewards decision making process


The following users liked this post:
Dr911 (01-02-2022)
Old 12-12-2021 | 07:19 PM
  #9  
mglobe's Avatar
mglobe
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,839
Likes: 120
From: Houston
Default

Some info on what the rules actually are on wave arounds. Makes it less black and white than I realized.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/wh...4z7c9zpXdmPhmQ
The following users liked this post:
ProCoach (12-12-2021)
Old 12-12-2021 | 07:29 PM
  #10  
Frank 993 C4S's Avatar
Frank 993 C4S
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,729
Likes: 911
From: NY Tri-State
Default

I stopped watching F1 back when they had to invent DRS so people could pass each other again due to the aero effects but this year we had some good races. Today's race didn't disappoint. The Checo battle with LH and the last few laps were nail biters. Max had nothing to lose in the past few races so he took risks LH couldn't afford to. LH would have done the same.

I bet the Steward has broad discretion to do a partial wave around after he had already ordered the pace car to come in that lap.
The following 3 users liked this post by Frank 993 C4S:
KevinGross (12-13-2021), ProCoach (12-12-2021), Stespa (12-16-2021)
Old 12-12-2021 | 09:23 PM
  #11  
Mike Roblin's Avatar
Mike Roblin
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,415
Likes: 572
From: South Florida
Default

I was very happy to see the race not end behind the safety car.

Great race today and I was also happy to see such good racing all season, finally we got some multi team competition!
The following 2 users liked this post by Mike Roblin:
ProCoach (12-12-2021), Robert Nixon (12-12-2021)
Old 12-12-2021 | 10:07 PM
  #12  
will968's Avatar
will968
Racer
 
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 306
Likes: 87
Default

Should have left the five lapped cars in. That would have been exciting without causing controversy. Now, it looks like the race finish was decided by officials.
The following 3 users liked this post by will968:
dogger15 (12-13-2021), Dr911 (01-02-2022), thebishman (12-13-2021)
Old 12-12-2021 | 10:18 PM
  #13  
Robert Nixon's Avatar
Robert Nixon
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 433
Likes: 159
From: Kings Point, NY
Default

Oh boy, if you want to read a big discussion, go check out FerrariChat, pretty much a Max/Lewis fan argument today!

I enjoyed it, happy to see Max win, as in "anyone but Mercedes" after so many years

Old 12-12-2021 | 10:44 PM
  #14  
SIC 58's Avatar
SIC 58
Instructor
 
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 111
Likes: 21
From: Williamsburg, VA
Default Great season

Plenty of drama and good racing. Both had bad and good luck as well. Was good to see the shootout however lopsided. Strategy was also essential in all the close races. Sometimes I don’t think Lewis understands what he should about that.
yes great to see Max bringing it to Mercedes.

Of the many other stories of this season, Tsunoda who started off doing rookie things had a great second half of the season.
Old 12-12-2021 | 10:46 PM
  #15  
venom51's Avatar
venom51
Burning Brakes
 
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 775
Likes: 232
From: Cumming,GA
Default

I'd first have to care about it. I stopped watching 2 seasons ago.
The following users liked this post:
Veloce Raptor (12-12-2021)


Quick Reply: Nobody has commented on today's F1???



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 07:17 AM.