Rain
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Rain
Looks like one of the 2 days at Watkins glen will be wet mon-tues Many say nothing good happens in the rain. Having committed for the event what should one strive for on a wet track. I will be running in the red group with SCDA for the first time. Definitely excited
#3
Three Wheelin'
Make sure you've got tires that are suited for rain driving, with a good amount of tread left
#5
Three Wheelin'
I used to take car of a small fleet of assorted rental race cars,,
I found that if it was a wet track day disconnecting or adjusting the sway bars seemed to reduce he number of off track expeditions by a lot..
No you wont have record lap times, but most cars seem to give way more warning of slip in the rain with softer suspension and a tic more body
roll to plant the outside tires in the turns. Disclaimer,, never tried this on a new Porsche, but my 69 911 T only had a front bar factory. And it loved the rain.
When I upgraded the bars (new front plus added the rear one both 70 "911 S spec" ) it was a noticeable loss of traction in the wet.
I live in Oregon so if you don't drive in the rain you don't drive..
I found that if it was a wet track day disconnecting or adjusting the sway bars seemed to reduce he number of off track expeditions by a lot..
No you wont have record lap times, but most cars seem to give way more warning of slip in the rain with softer suspension and a tic more body
roll to plant the outside tires in the turns. Disclaimer,, never tried this on a new Porsche, but my 69 911 T only had a front bar factory. And it loved the rain.
When I upgraded the bars (new front plus added the rear one both 70 "911 S spec" ) it was a noticeable loss of traction in the wet.
I live in Oregon so if you don't drive in the rain you don't drive..
#6
Drifting
What is your skill level, what car are you driving, how much experience do you have in the rain? I love the rain in a rwd car and honestly try to keep it on the edge of grip everywhere, but if your car has unbalanced tread left on the tires front to back, or you don't have any experience in it, or at that track, it could be terrifying.
What you definitely need to watch for is if it hasn't rained in a long time the track is going to be coated with oils and fluids from cars and can be quite slick when it initially starts to rain in spots, or everywhere on the racing line. If it has been raining for awhile it will probably be a consistent surface.
THe other thing about the rain is the racing line is not always teh fastest. If you have parts of the track that are dry even way off line they can be quicker than running the line in the wet. Cars may dry the surface out as the day goes on on the line, so deviating from the line can cause surprise problems also as you could have much more grip on the line vs off line.
You're going to need to know how to catch a car too if you want to push. hands should be glued to the wheel at 9-3, or 10-2. If you lose grip on the rear do quick jabs with the wheel to get rid of front grip to balance the car.
What you definitely need to watch for is if it hasn't rained in a long time the track is going to be coated with oils and fluids from cars and can be quite slick when it initially starts to rain in spots, or everywhere on the racing line. If it has been raining for awhile it will probably be a consistent surface.
THe other thing about the rain is the racing line is not always teh fastest. If you have parts of the track that are dry even way off line they can be quicker than running the line in the wet. Cars may dry the surface out as the day goes on on the line, so deviating from the line can cause surprise problems also as you could have much more grip on the line vs off line.
You're going to need to know how to catch a car too if you want to push. hands should be glued to the wheel at 9-3, or 10-2. If you lose grip on the rear do quick jabs with the wheel to get rid of front grip to balance the car.
#7
Rennlist Member
Agree with everything above. In addition:
- wet line is usually 1/2 car width over from the dry line
- use your eyes and avoid standing water if possible - drive whatever line offers the best grip
- wheels as straight as possible when crossing water, whether standing water or run-off that flows across the track due to draining
- reduce speed appropriately
- over-inflate tires by approx 10% to reduce footprint (contact patch) which helps guard against or reduce chance of hydroplaning (this was counter-intuitive until I became educated on the topic)
- MOST OF ALL - watch out for the other drivers. I never worry about my own driving on track. I do worry about people that aren’t taking adequate measures. Even if you do everything right it only takes one idiot to go flying past you and lose it (for any number of reasons)
- worth repeating: STAY OFF ALL PAINT and stay on pavement (all four, always). If you think you’re fast on pavement, wait till you experience wet grass
- between 8 & 9 a small lake developed (just before 9) that was the last to dry during a very soggy weekend about a month ago
Have fun. You’ll learn a TON in the wet and you can practice being super smooth with all inputs (hands and feet) as noted above.
- wet line is usually 1/2 car width over from the dry line
- use your eyes and avoid standing water if possible - drive whatever line offers the best grip
- wheels as straight as possible when crossing water, whether standing water or run-off that flows across the track due to draining
- reduce speed appropriately
- over-inflate tires by approx 10% to reduce footprint (contact patch) which helps guard against or reduce chance of hydroplaning (this was counter-intuitive until I became educated on the topic)
- MOST OF ALL - watch out for the other drivers. I never worry about my own driving on track. I do worry about people that aren’t taking adequate measures. Even if you do everything right it only takes one idiot to go flying past you and lose it (for any number of reasons)
- worth repeating: STAY OFF ALL PAINT and stay on pavement (all four, always). If you think you’re fast on pavement, wait till you experience wet grass
- between 8 & 9 a small lake developed (just before 9) that was the last to dry during a very soggy weekend about a month ago
Have fun. You’ll learn a TON in the wet and you can practice being super smooth with all inputs (hands and feet) as noted above.
Last edited by needmoregarage; 08-27-2021 at 09:26 PM.
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#8
Think about braking 1/2 lane over in T-1. More grip out of the groove and if you slide you'll have space to correct. Pit-in line is always slick.
#9
Rennlist Member
Rain is FUN!!
Several other comments here all worth noting.
I think the key thing is to learn how to "read" a wet track..
The track wears and gets smoother over time where the cars go. Brake zones wear is higher plus more rubber. More rubber in hard brake zones as well. Slippery when wet.
This is simple:
Look at the surface. Where it is shiny, you have less grip. Don't go there. The rain line is in large part the sections that have less wear are not shiny.
Read the surface. It tells you where the grip is and where it isn't.
When teaching a rain line I will sometimes have the student try to brake hard enough to get on the ABS (specific corners where I know there is margin for the car to slip).
It often takes several attempts as they try to tickle the ABS and they realize just how much grip there is on the rain line.
Read the surface.....
Be aware that after the repave, between T7 & T8, just before the first brake marker - before the track slopes down, the track is inexplicably bumpy on the left and retains more water than it should. You can even hydroplane. Feel it out, I found that I had to go a few feet right there left line to avoid this.
Several other comments here all worth noting.
I think the key thing is to learn how to "read" a wet track..
The track wears and gets smoother over time where the cars go. Brake zones wear is higher plus more rubber. More rubber in hard brake zones as well. Slippery when wet.
This is simple:
Look at the surface. Where it is shiny, you have less grip. Don't go there. The rain line is in large part the sections that have less wear are not shiny.
Read the surface. It tells you where the grip is and where it isn't.
When teaching a rain line I will sometimes have the student try to brake hard enough to get on the ABS (specific corners where I know there is margin for the car to slip).
It often takes several attempts as they try to tickle the ABS and they realize just how much grip there is on the rain line.
Read the surface.....
Be aware that after the repave, between T7 & T8, just before the first brake marker - before the track slopes down, the track is inexplicably bumpy on the left and retains more water than it should. You can even hydroplane. Feel it out, I found that I had to go a few feet right there left line to avoid this.
Last edited by dan212; 08-27-2021 at 10:52 PM.
#10
What all have said, and I'll add just be thankful it's not Mid-Ohio.
See you there, white Mini #0 in Red group.
See you there, white Mini #0 in Red group.
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#11
Rennlist Member
I did a few laps after a deluge about a month ago.
Climbing the hill after the toe (turn 7) about midway between that and turn 8 was super slick. Felt like I was driving on ice.
Feel that out REAL slowly
Climbing the hill after the toe (turn 7) about midway between that and turn 8 was super slick. Felt like I was driving on ice.
Feel that out REAL slowly
#12
If traffic allows, drive on the RIGHT side of the track up the sole (between 7 and 8)--if you read the surface as dan212 says you'll see it's grainy (not as shiny) there. At about the 200ft brake marker the grainy line shifts back to the left side of the track for T8.