I think you have me confused with someone who cares. You have evaded every detailed and reasonable question in your search for support of your bizarre theories. You post all over the place using one definition here and another there so you can always call upon the one that fits your view of you absolute superiority. You have been arrogant and started some huge fights. You take meaningless data and use that to identify mistakes made by Schumie. I could go on, but there is not nearly the time nor space.

Add me to the long, long list of people who think you are an arrogant nOOb who refuses to learn anything and is obnoxious on top of it. You are beyond help (Which is what a lot of people told me when I first started trying to have rational discussions with you. I thought you could be polite and rational, they didn't. They were right and I was wrong.)

Now this board has some cool features. One of those is that you click on someone's profile and then the IGNORE feature. Bye.

 

It's clear from the chart that he is breaking and turning at the same time. If that's what you define as "trail braking", then it is proof that he does.

Unfortunately, without further data about the car/speed/track/etc, I don't think any other conclusions can be drawn from this graph.

 

Yes, it is my fault and I apologize. I spiked your food with stoopid pills. And what was that BS on the 996TT forum about using ABS to nearly the apex? BYE

 

OK...well - I don't have the time to trace threads (or the desire) to understand the he said/she said here so I'm not going to go there. I'm sure others remember what was/wasn't said better than I so I'll leave it to them.

One question looking at the chart - can you tell me what his average "G sum" is and the standard deviation? It looks to me like he has a pretty unacceptable variance in those terms...

 

Responding to Sunday et al... the different aspects of TB... rotational, slowing down, managing weight transients are all a matter of...

How hard you push on the brake

How long you brake

The geometry of the turn

Entry speed

Good drivers adjust that for the specific needs of each individual turn... there is no single "right" way....

Good drivers TB where appropriate and don't when not appropriate.... its hours and years of track time that determine that, and how well you use that tool determines whether you are on pole or the middle of the 5th row.

Remember ALL GENERALIZATIONS ARE WRONG...

 

Ken, absolutely correct. Now, I am using the industry standard definition of trail braking, i.e. braking and turning, or baking at any point during or after turn in. While you can't guarantee it, the fact that his fc curves so closely match the shape of the theoretical fc curves implies (but does not guarantee) that he is extremely close to the fc for much of the time.

Sunday:
I will no longer refer to you, and please, no longer refer to me.

 

"Remember ALL GENERALIZATIONS ARE WRONG...
"

Isn't that a generalization?

 

Hi Sunday,

Welcome to the club!! (no CC communication).

 

Mike LOL!

 

And that seems to be what everyone understands except CC. Most models don't work well in many cases. His just don't work.

 

Thanks. I tried but you guys were right.

 

Color -

How do we know exactly when Schumi is braking? In F1 magazine I read that because of the aerodynamic drag of the wings, an F1 car will slow at approximately 1 G by simply lifting off the gas. Consequently some of the decel on that chart is due to the tremendous drag.

I also believe that anything demonstrated on an F1 car bears little relation to a regular production based automobile.

 

Just in case you missed this one CC - this was for you...

 

Egg Zachary.

We have here a stellar example of "Looking at the world thru a garden hose". We don't know where the track goes. We don't have any data ack at all. Anybody who can look at a g-graph and "analyze" performance or discuss technique and engineering is hallucinating. The 70's were a very interesting time to be in college, but my chromasomes are only now recovering and it all just seems like a big purple haze now.

The graph means nothing without the rest of the data for that session. Nothing.

We don't know if the decelleration forces are due to brakes, aero, or running into the back of the safety car. Each situation will have dramatically different effects on the chassis. Decellerating with BIG aero mid-corner is not even on the same planet as trail braking mid-corner.

When you're looking down that garden hose, kids...just make sure somebody doesn't turn the water on at the other end.

 

Bob R: I’m not sure I understand the question. We know exactly when Schumi is braking when he hits anything over 1 g in -long g's? You will notice, he never holds just 1 g pure braking. Whenever he is only braking (not trail braking), it is pretty much threshold braking and in the 3-4+ -long g range.

Do you mean to imply that Schumi's exclusive use of trail braking does not apply to our cars in most situation, and most turns?

Bob D:
I have not sat down and calculated all the data points. What I think you are getting at though is correct, the g sum changes a lot because of the aero influence on his car. For us, it should be quite consistent. For him, huge changes. Is that what you are after?