Hi All,
I'm looking at Kirkey seats for a track car for DEs. I don't plan on racing this car. I do need to drive it to/from the track. I was looking at the Road Race Intermediate. The deluxe version was recommended since the 951 can hit speeds over 140 down longer straights. I need head room. The intermediate looks like it will sit lower than the deluxe. Any thoughts on the differences between the road race deluxe and the intermediate as far as safety? How much head room can be gained over stock seats by bolting a kirkey to the floor? Will an intermediate give more headroom?

Thanks,
Mark

 

Hey Mark;

I have installed both; the inter in a customer car and the deluxe in mine. I have never compared the two side by side. I know that I had trouble getting the deluxe low enough for max headroom. I had to cut the floor x-member out and redo it, and also cut the mount flange off the bottom of the seat to lower it. I'm 6'5" by the by.

I chose the deluxe because it is FAR stiffer than the inter. I sat in the inter when I installed it in a friend's 914 and I could twist it all over the place (I do have a long, large upper torso!). The deluxe is far stiffer and would be the safer seat, no question. In a side hit I feel it would absorb more impact and also direct more of your body inertia in a logitudinal direction -vs- spilling you out sideways.

Since it is stiffer, It will also be a better platform for installing a head retention system, which is something everyone should also consider.

 

Mark, I would strongly suggest installing the head retention system that John suggests. Since you are doing the seat it would be an opportune time

 

Thanks John. How much additional headroom were you able to gain once you modified the deluxe seat over stock? I just fit without a helmet and don't fit with a helmet. This is one of my primary concerns along with safety. I have a BEll M2 helmet. Which one of your cars were they installed in?

Can you give some more details on how you mounted the seat? I understand cutting the mount flange off but I'm not sure what the floor x-member is. Was the mount flange easy to cut off?

Did you bolt the Kirkey directly to the floor or use side mounts. I don't understand how people bolt directly to the floor. Is there special hardware for this? Isn't there a bolt head that would extend through the seat. I love this hobby, but still have much to learn. The deluxe is too expensive to get wrong. I have sat in them and do like them, the wildcard is how they fit in the car which I have no way to guage.

Thanks,
Mark

 

Mark,
I put the Kirky Road Race in my car recently. My 6'5" 210# frame demands a larger seat, and the Kirkey is a perfect fit. Redline is right on the money about the stiffness, strength and lightness of this seat. It is very comfortable to boot. Head room is more than adequate, but the RR is a very wide and tall seat so clearances on the roll cage components can demand some attention to detail in positioning, brackets etc.

The Kirkey side mounts give you more flexibility in positioning, rake adjustment etc without adding very much in height. More importantly, the allow you to manage the slight offset of the stock seat attach points. The seat needs to be as close to the centerline as you can get it, particularly to provide adequate clearance for upper roll cage members etc. Alternatively, you could fabricate brackets - they are a simple L form. For $30, I went with the Kirkey brackets!

 

Guys, are we talking about the same thing?
Kirkey now has 2 types of dedicated Road Race Seats:

The Deluxe Road Race Seat:
http://www.kirkeyracing.com/43000seat.html
and the Intermediate Road Race Seat:
http://www.kirkeyracing.com/47000seat.html

There's also a non-Road Race seat called the Intermediate:
http://www.kirkeyracing.com/36000seat.html

Which ones are we comparing?

 

Mine is the Deluxe Road Race. I suspect the Intermediate Road Race deletes the extensive stiffening and other features of the Deluxe.

 

I'm interested in a comparison of the Intermediate Road Race Seat and the Deluxe Road Race Seat. It sounds like the deluxe is the way to go. I only have a roll bar so I will not have the cage problem.

Tony, how much headroom did you gain with the deluxe road race seat over stock seats? I basically need the height of my helmet, probably an inch or two. The Kirkey brackets sounds like a good way to go. Sounds like I could install it myself if the brackets fit and I can get the headroom.

Thanks,
Mark

 

OK... here we go;

The Road Race Intermediate is indeed constructed like the other Kirkey seats; i.e. out of various panels formed from .125 5052 alloy. It is stamped and beveled at strategic locations to give some strength. From the front it looks identical to the Deluxe. The RR Inter offers no mounting bosses.

The Deluxe is made much the same in terms of architecture, but substitutes thicker CNC machined alloy panels in key areas for added stiffness with little weight penalty. It also offers side mounting flanges with mount holes.

As mentioned, I chose the Deluxe because the Intermediate flexed FAR too much for my size. If you had some sort of seat back retention, this point would be mitigated.

I mounted my seat on double locking sliding tracks. Of course this took some room. My car has no inner roof panel or headliner. My first attempt at mounting it in a proper position did not give enough headroom. I could not get the front of the seat low enough with the original x-member in place. With the seat set to clear this x-member, the seat was tipped back like crazy. If I tipped it up in the rear to correct steering wheel reach, I lost valuable headroom.

I subsequently cut the floor x-member out and redid it so that I could lower the front of the seat without raising the rear to level it. This STILL did not give enough headroom and so I also had to cut the side mount flanges off the seat. This gained me 1.5" and enough clearance to fit.

This pic shows the front x-member cut out, and a new lower profile reinforcement in its place. You can see the angle iron frame that I built to reinforce the seat mounting, and the holes for the seat tracks.

This pic shows the double locking seat tracks in place. I fabricated the seat mount tabs and welded them to the seat tracks.

This pic shows the seat in its original form. The supplied seat mount holes in the side panel are below the seat base height. I had to cut this flange off to gain the extra head room and redrill the mounting holes through the seat side panel as I do with other Kirkey seats that do not offer mount flanges. Incidentally, you can the see the side panel is one of the thicker CNC machined areas. About 3/16ths I'd guess.

I am still tipped back from the wheel more than I would like, but I have made the best compromise with the seat that is available. Now it is down to more wheel spacers to fix it right.

 

Is it possible to install a 17 inch Road Race Deluxe seat with the Kirkey side mounts to existing seat mount points in a 944 Turbo? I'm the only driver so I don't need rails. I don't have the tools or expertise for a complicated install that involves cutting, bending, welding, and the like. I'm trying to decide if I should order the Kirkey brackets and install it myself or just order the seat and take it to a race shop to install.

John and Troy, are you running with the seat back brace? I was planning on going with the IO Port seat back brace.

John, thanks for the detailed write-up!

Thanks,
Mark

 

Mark,
Mine is installed with Sparco dual locking sliders and the Kirkey brackets. Direct bolt-up. The sparco sliders add less than 1/2" of height, and lots of convenience!

I have the IO Port seat brace, but I've pulled it apart, drilled some new holes, and mounted the brace plate directly to the cross bar behind the seat. Managed to gain an extra inch or so of rearward travel by deleting the tube and bracket that allws the brace plate to be extended out from teh cross bar to the seat back.

I can post some pics if you want?

 

Sure, I would appreciate the pictures if you have the time. I'm going to buy the seat first to determine how much headroom I need. Hopefully I can get the sliders in.

Thanks,
Mark

 

John,

Do you have any pictures of you installation of the head retention system?

I have a solid mount Kirkey Deluxe seat, love it.

 

Hey Guys;

I have no experience with the Kirkey brackets. The JAZ sliders that I use are VERY rugged and probably add 3/4-1" to the height. And APKaos is right... CONVENIENCE. In our DE world, you never know who you might want to drive your car. Also, often times the seated position is farther forward than ingress/egress dictates. Sliders make it a lot easier to get in and out. The energy saved here is crucial to me lasting a weekend!!

John - I do not have the head containment option on my seat. I probably will build my own. However, I did get Kirkey to send me a pic of theirs. It is not even publicized yet and they are SWAMPED with orders for them. It is said to be adaptable to any of their seats. $150.



I am ambivalent toward seat back braces. There are two issues at play with them. To the good, if you have a cheap flexy seat, they can stabilize it from flexing too much or breaking altogether. To the bad, they do not allow ANY flex and so the seat is not capable of helping to dissipate energy.

If you have a good quality seat that is stiff enough to do the job on its own, a seat back brace can be detrimental in my view because it will not allow the seat to flex (as it is designed to do) and dissipate energy.

Another factor at work here is the addition of full containment seats or head containment options added to seats not originally having them. These are designed to keep the head from whipping sideways in an offset hit. If the seat is not designed to resist flex on its own, it will likely twist sideways and spill you out anyway. If a seat is stiff enough to stand on its own, a head containment option will work more effectively.

Adding a back brace to this scenario may once again improve not only the integrity of the whippy cheap seat, but also improve the performance of the head containment option as well. Adding a back brace to a seat that is designed to stand alone will again degrade the absorbtion of energy.

Like everything else we do these days, seats are now pieces in a puzzle, with belts and head & neck devices as integral parts of a SYSTEM. It is important to be educated and study carefully so that you can come up with the best system you can get for your money. It aint child's play anymore!!

 

Tony, I'm planning on going with your setup. Do you know how much headroom was gained over stock? I would like to know before I order the sliders.

Thanks,
Mark