LanceK

I've just looked at both Chevy and Ford Heavy Duty trucks and am looking for some opinions on either. I am looking at diesel power so I'd like to hear more about people's experience with that powerplant.

Chevy DuraMax
Ford 6.0 (not 7.3) Powerstroke

My impressions after driving both:

Chevy DuraMax:

Engine: seems quieter, good power.

Ride: The Chevy 2500 HD seems to ride very smooth for a 3/4 ton truck. I've heard the 3/4 Chevy uses an independent front suspension that rides better, but may not be as durable.


Ford 6.0 Powerstroke:

Engine: Noisier than Dmax, good power.

Ride: Good ride but stiffer than the Chevy.


My main concern revolves around the durability and reliability of the two engines. This would be my first diesel and I am a little concerned. I've heard there are concerns about the Dmax since it has an iron block and aluminum heads. And I've heard the Ford Powerstroke 6.0 had some issues (injectors?) but has been pretty much taken care of with a TSB. From general experience, talking to people, and visiting some of the diesel boards there seems to be a larger number of issues like no-start, stalling, hard start etc. than gas engines.

TIA

NicolasW

Just got a 2002 Ford F350 PSD SRW. It's got the 7.3L PSD instead of the newer 6L PSD. From what I have heard, the 6.0L is having problems because of the newer diesel emissions laws.

I'm a Ford truck person myself, so 2002 or earlier PSD's would be the best purchase, IMHO.

I got a SRW instead of a Dually because I was going to drive the truck almost as a daily driver, however the dually is of course better for towing.

Bill L Seifert

I have a friend that just bought a Dodge with a Cummins, and he is crazy about it. About noise, you can hardly tell it's a diesel. I personally am looking at a 2001 Chevy Dually, with a 6 liter gas engine. I can buy a heck of a lot of gas with the difference between gas and diesel. If the prices were the same, I would sure take the diesel, but not for $4,000 to $6,000 difference.

Bill Seifert

Bryan Watts

The 6 liter Chevy gas engine doesn't even come close to having the towing capacity of a diesel. It's not really a comparison at all. I have the 6 liter in my 1500HD Quadsteer and find it to be just barely enough for a single car enclosed trailer with minimal tools/spares.

From what I've heard, the "issues" with the Ford 6.0 have all but been taken care of. Further, most diesel guys I know say the Ford 6.0 is the best motor and tranny combo out there. Everyone says not to even consider the Chevy without the Allison, and that even then, the Ford's auto transmission is as good, if not better. I've also heard the Ford chassis (450 and up) with the solid front axle is the way to go for serious towing. Of course, this is all second hand.

Personally, we've been running a 7.3 Ford 350 for 50K+ miles towing a stacker trailer with 2 cars, tools, 6+ sets of wheels, extra tires, bunks, a golf-cart, A/C, TV, etc, etc. and have never had any problems...even towing through mountains.

race911

'03 Ford F350 6.0 here. Had to buy one of the first problem children exactly one year ago because I had wrecked my '94 GMC. Guess what? Zero problems! Sure, they did the one recall, but all else has been just fine. Turned 20K miles a couple of weeks ago, probably 1/3 of that has been towing (7K lbs w/ my late RS America, 5K lbs w/ Radical SR3).

I heartily endorse the Ford. Great powerband, 18mpg when not towing, comfortable seats. A little much for cruising around town and empty up and down the freeway; and I think for the price the interior should be modern (climate control, etc.).

Just got a Diablo programmer for it, and the 65hp (claimed) tune is impressive. Amazing a 7700 lb mass of metal can accelerate like that!

In summary, if you can afford new and need to tow more than a nominal amount, the diesels ARE the way to go.

Dbltime

I was ready to pick up a new Ford when I test drove the Dodge with the high output Cummins. I have had the truck for 13 months, 48,000 miles and love it. 500+ mile range (not towing), 350-400 towing and plenty of power. I have had "0" issues with the truck.

Julian Allen

Previously towed with a 2500 Suburban 454, good vehicle but tops out at 10000 capacity--so I have a 3500 Sierra dually on order with the Duramax engine/Allison transmission.
You can get more insight from the various diesel sites:

www.dieselplace.com Chev/GMC
www.thedieselstop.com Ford
www.turbodieselregister.com Dodge

There are lots of opinions out there.
Most importantly, I think you need more capacity than you tow in order to be safe with braking. Think about going 70-75 mph on the freeway, someone travelling in the left hand lane next to you, and a truck pull out of line at a weigh station 1/2 mile ahead. I guarantee you would like to get stopped.
I also think the aftermarket hitches are better than the current factory hitches.
And consider whether you plan to tow other trailers (like flexibility for towing a flatbed when you might need it) before you go with a PullRite or similar high end hitch.
YMMV.

mitch236

I have an '04 Excursion with the 6.0L PSD and couldn't be happier. It tows great and has lots of storage room. I can't comment on any other diesel. My previous tow vehicle was a Dodge Ram 1500. The Ford is quiet as long as the windows are closed. I had an issue with the power steering vacuum hose and so did my neighbor who owns the same vehicle.

One thing I noticed is that when I switched to the longer wheelbase of the Ford, the package stability increased so longer wheelbases should give greater stability.

The comments about braking is very important, and I recommend electric brakes on your trailer.

RedlineMan

Hey Guys;

I would opt for the Diesel if I had it to do over again, I guess. I have a 2000 E450 Ford Cube Van with a 6.8L V10. It is not an HP brute by an means, but the power is adequate and the 450 chassis' lower rear end ratio (part of the 450 upgrade) means I can hold OD almost everywhere except serious grades. Gets between 9-13 towing. The 55 gallon tank is nice, but realy hurts at fillup time! The chassis itself is OBVIOUSLY solid as a ROCK... but rides reasonably well.

My take on the 6.0 GM is that it is everything the regular V8s aren't. It again is not a bruiser, but it is a MASSIVE improvement over the smaller standard mill. I've towed with an 03 GMC 2500HD 4x and like that rig quite a bit. If you insist on gas and don't haul the world, it is a nice setup.

I have a friend who bought an 03 Cummins Quad 4x. LOTS of quality control issues, which is totally typical of Chrysler. Turbo blew within 30 minutes of leaving the dealership. Gauges blank in and out. Driveline vibration caused by excessive u-joint angles. I would HOPE that these gremlins have been remedied by now. In his case they have not because of a recalcitirant dealer (Burdick-Syracuse). He has been having the warranty stuff done in DC, believe it or not. No other dealer remotely local to Syracuse will touch it because of Burdick's "presence."

Nice truck though, other than all that BS. Very roomy, fairly quiet. Decent ride. Nice interior, if a bit austere. 19 towing. HUGE power. He can break the rear tires lose towing the trailer! Bizzarre to see a tow vehicle with a load on back doing burnouts! (Don't try this at home!!)

As someone said in the other tow thread, Dainty Don't Cut It!!!

Bryan Watts

Methinks THAT might explain the driveline vibration issues your buddy is having.

SkipSauls

I've owned a GMC 2500HD Duramax/Allison for 6 months and have been on multiple 200-500 mile trips and one 1500 mile trip, mostly towing a 24' enclosed trailer for the racecar. I get 17-18 MPG when not towing, yielding a 600 mile range. When towing it drops to 11-13 MPG, which is good for 400 miles or more between fillups. I have a long bed with the 34 gallon tank, which is a plus.

I was seriously considering a Ford 250 or 350 with the 6.0 diesel, but just didn't like them as much as the GM models. Power was similar, but the Fords just didn't feel as good in terms of ride and handling. I didn't consider the Dodge as I can't stand the image of those things, but hey, that's a personal problem and not an attack on anyone's choice.

All this being said, my suggestion is to go with what you like and what you can get the best deal on.

Jeff Curtis

...die-hard Chevy fan UNTIL I checked prices and specs when compared to the F250 HD line. I have owned 3 Silverados in the past, all new, all with the Vortech driveline, two with the 5.7l and the last one with the new 5.4l.

These vehicles were GREAT for comfort, power, you name it...but at the time I was hauling an open flatbed, sometimes cross-country.

THEN I got the hankering for an enclosed trailer and knew that a 1500 series truck wouldn't haul the mail.

My search went IMMEDIATELY to the Duramax Diesels, yes, the 6spd Allison transmission was sweet, but the engine seemed shy on "umph"...that's when I realized that an F250 SD Powerstroke Diesel could be had cheaper, looked "tougher" (IMHO) and pulled out more power with 325HP and 560 ft. lbs. of torque.

I went to the local "BIG" Ford dealer and talked prices, test drove a few and found an F250 XLT "Sport" with shortbed, extended cab, paint coded bumpers (not chrome) a custom tailpipe, sidesteps, bolstered two-tone sport seats, carbon fiber accents...etc. I was SOLD.

I worked the deal down from $39,600 to an even $30K...the salesman and his mgr. were worn out - but I stood my ground by claiming that's what it would take to make the switch...as I was NOT going to pay the $42K that the Duramax diesels were commanding.

SO, I made the switch and couldn't be happier. Yes, there are supposedly some idling issues with the Powerstroke 6.0l but it's no different than owning the rough-idling 964 in my garage.

This thing pulls my 24ft. enclosed unit with my P-Car in it like a dream. I have a class V hitch and NO sway control units...the car balance is perfect...after a few "test runs".

I would say, in all honesty, if you are intertested in getting a "real" tow unit, and are planning on hauling an enclosed unit over 20ft. with a decent amount of gear, a turbo-diesel purchase should be in the stars for you...whether it's a Dodge Cummins, a Chevy Duramax or a Ford Powerstroke.

FWIW, Superchips and Diablo both offer a HELL of an upgrade for tuner modules for most turbo-diesels that make the power output nothing short of VERY impressive...there is a tow mode that supposedly saves on gas mileage.

...and a few other performance modes that reportedly makes the truck downright fun.

LanceK

Skip...in regards to your comments about the Chevy riding better I agree. When I drove a CrewCab 2500HD I couldn't believe I was driving a 3/4 ton truck! The ride was smooth and not harsh. It stayed flat in the turns and was firm but not stiff. Does this have anything to do with the Chevy chassis not being fully boxed? I'm not sure if it is or not but I heard the better ride means less durability down the road.

I loved the DMax. It had plenty of smooth power and was definately quieter than the PowerStroke, which although I like the sound of a diesel is close to being too loud. The DuraMax was perfect in the sound department.

My main concern with the DuraMax is the aluminum head and iron block relationship. I read a lot of people are not very fond of this design, especially on a diesel. However since it's built by Isuzu (70 yrs. of diesel experience I believe?) I tend to have confidence in the design. Also the Allison transmission complimented it nicely. I wish Chevy would hurry up and offer the DuraMax in the Suburban which is my first choice in bodystyle.

OTEcupracer

Having driven all of the major three trucks lately and for the past 11 years Ive come to some personal conclusions. The Chevys' construction materials worry me beyond no end (we all know of the multi metal problem Porsche had with the 2.7) I do truly like the Allison and the ride is comfortable.
The fords new engine is having alot of problems with oil and diesel mixing and I have heard of buybacks regarding the trucks, if your a ford guy go with the 7.3. The ride is okay but its loud.
I love the new Dodge powertrain but the interior of the truck looks like sitting in a panel van, no personality, and if I'm going to drive 12 hours to get to a track I better like what I'm looking at. the ride has definitely improved on these trucks.
Okay with that said I own a 2000 3500 Dodge 4x4 with performance pieces. It dynos at 375 hp and 711 ft lbs of torque. It gets 16.5 in town and 19.8 on the highway at 85 - 90 mph. When towing up to 8000 lbs it'll run 12.5 mpg, higher weight loses very little milage. I have yet had a truck come along that could pull the way this thing does. it seems to do it's job effortlessly with power to spare.
Last thing get some tips from Jeff, ALL of these trucks are commanding way too much money.