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So who got nailed by the Mustang at VIR?

 
Old 07-04-2019, 12:50 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell View Post
He didnt deserve to get hit, it isn't his "fault" but if he had done something different it wouldn't have happened.
Conjecture, IMO.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell View Post
I don't know how you guys can say "he should have pointed him by" and "absolutely 0% to blame" in the same sentance.

I point by people who are slower then me or who shouldnt be in front all the time just to not drive near them. Traffic management is part of DE. He didnt deserve to get hit, it isn't his "fault" but if he had done something different it wouldn't have happened.

Mustang driver is obviously a red misted idiot, but as my dad used to say when I was a kid, it doesnt matter if you get hit riding your bike and the driver was "wrong" you still might be dead.
Holy crap you weren't joking... Let the fun begin...
NO! Had the Mustang done any number of things differently this doesn't happen. So if a guy doesn't give YOU a point by and you T-Bone him in a red mist you would blame the other driver? I just want to be sure so I make a note to my region to blackball you from all our DE's. Not even being funny or sarcastic here. Talk about misappropriating blame. The Mustang is absolutely 0% a victim in any of this which is what blaming the GT3 driver makes him. Should we give him a participation trophy after he bins two cars too?

Guessing almost all of us in this forum have been stuck behind slower traffic like this. Guessing none of us T-Boned them in a red mist either...
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:52 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by ProCoach View Post
Conjecture, IMO.
If he had pointed him by he would have still got hit by a guy who is now in front of him?

You guys keep driving however you want I guess, I will keep getting away from people I don't trust on the track at HPDE days.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:56 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell
If he had pointed him by he would have still got hit by a guy who is now in front of him?

You guys keep driving however you want I guess, I will keep getting away from people I don't trust on the track at HPDE days.
This incident aside, definitely support staying away from sketchy drivers and lotuses .
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:57 PM
  #50  
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Comments disabled for his video now, wish I had seen it before he shut them down. Feel real bad for the GT3 driver.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:58 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by SeanR
Comments disabled for his video now, wish I had seen it before he shut them down. Feel real bad for the GT3 driver.
Go watch his racers360 videos and comment on those instead.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:00 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell View Post
I don't know how you guys can say "he should have pointed him by" and "absolutely 0% to blame" in the same sentance.

I point by people who are slower then me or who shouldnt be in front all the time just to not drive near them. Traffic management is part of DE. He didnt deserve to get hit, it isn't his "fault" but if he had done something different it wouldn't have happened.

Mustang driver is obviously a red misted idiot, but as my dad used to say when I was a kid, it doesnt matter if you get hit riding your bike and the driver was "wrong" you still might be dead.
Coulda, shoulda, woulda!
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:01 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Paul Solk View Post
Holy crap you weren't joking... Let the fun begin...
NO! Had the Mustang done any number of things differently this doesn't happen. So if a guy doesn't give YOU a point by and you T-Bone him in a red mist you would blame the other driver? I just want to be sure so I make a note to my region to blackball you from all our DE's. Not even being funny or sarcastic here.
I hope you enjoy your power trip or whatever you are on here. I am not going to defend myself anymore. Obviously I am not going to rear end someone, I just back off and get some clear track as I have said over and over again.

That said I wouldn't want to be a part of any organization that would have you in an influential position if this is how you are going to act.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell View Post
I don't know how you guys can say "he should have pointed him by" and "absolutely 0% to blame" in the same sentance.

I point by people who are slower then me or who shouldnt be in front all the time just to not drive near them. Traffic management is part of DE. He didnt deserve to get hit, it isn't his "fault" but if he had done something different it wouldn't have happened.

Mustang driver is obviously a red misted idiot, but as my dad used to say when I was a kid, it doesnt matter if you get hit riding your bike and the driver was "wrong" you still might be dead.
I think I understand your point in that you are saying if the Porsche driver had given the Mustang driver a point-by none of this would have happened. I get it.

That being said, if you "let" someone give you red mist you are always going to be 100% at fault.

Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell View Post
I hope you enjoy your power trip or whatever you are on here. I am not going to defend myself anymore. Obviously I am not going to rear end someone, I just back off and get some clear track as I have said over and over again.

That said I wouldn't want to be a part of any organization that would have you in an influential position if this is how you are going to act.
That is pretty F-ing harsh and sort of a low blow! We are all passionate here and like to debate a little rough. If you are going to say something like this every time you don't like someone pushing back, you are going to have a rough time here.

And for the record, none of us here should but in an influential position, but we are!
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell View Post
I hope you enjoy your power trip or whatever you are on here. I am not going to defend myself anymore. Obviously I am not going to rear end someone, I just back off and get some clear track as I have said over and over again.

That said I wouldn't want to be a part of any organization that would have you in an influential position if this is how you are going to act.
Kevin, look. You care, you give a damn, you're a good instructor and track day leader. So is Paul.

In my experience, there is no contact incident unless there is a car (and driver) who's reach exceeds their grasp. Like in this case.

If people TRULY accept personal responsibility for their actions while on the track, then they have the responsibility to recognize when they are running close to the edge and the thinness of the margin is getting very close.

I think we're all on the same team here. We WANT to trust others on the track. We BELIEVE that people will drive in a responsible way and not put themselves or others around them in danger. We'd LIKE to think some organizations (and especially those in which the people that are aware and do give a damn) are safer than others, but there's no data... no black and white proof that that is indeed the case.

I wait until others can prove to me that they can be trusted. Otherwise, I step back, roll through the pits, and do what anyone sensible would do. Disengage...
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:12 PM
  #56  
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Yeah, the failure to point by was pretty egregious and would have been something worth addressing in the ordinary course of things. It's a reach though to assign any blame to the GT3 for the inability of the camera car to manage an exceedingly common event at a DE.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:13 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell View Post
I hope you enjoy your power trip or whatever you are on here. I am not going to defend myself anymore. Obviously I am not going to rear end someone, I just back off and get some clear track as I have said over and over again.

That said I wouldn't want to be a part of any organization that would have you in an influential position if this is how you are going to act.
No problem there. It's not a power trip. To actually lay blame on the GT3 in this instance is so far beyond comprehension to me it scares me people even have a smidgen of that mindset. It's a flippin DE. If anyone ever came to black flag at one of our events and tried to lay blame for HEAVY contact on not getting a point by I would black ball them immediately and they would never run with our group again period. We just got it out of the way before black flag. All good!
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:24 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Kevin Fennell View Post
I hope you enjoy your power trip or whatever you are on here. I am not going to defend myself anymore. Obviously I am not going to rear end someone, I just back off and get some clear track as I have said over and over again.

That said I wouldn't want to be a part of any organization that would have you in an influential position if this is how you are going to act.
Let’s take it down a notch, I don’t see a power trip just an organizer trying to wrap their mind around the mindset of a driver. I understand what you are trying to say but while we both agree that the GT3 driver should have pointed bye the Mustang, it doesn’t mean he shares any responsibility for being hit. Letting a nut behind you through clearly decreases the chances of that nut t-boning you however not letting the nut through doesn’t mean you are partially responsible for the nut ramming you! This is all most of us are saying!

Mustang man should have controlled his emotions in that situation and as a result better controlled his car for the safety of both him and other drivers sharing the track with him. The error is all Mustang man, although we agree that the GT3 probably should have pointed him by earlier.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:29 PM
  #59  
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Wow, add this to the threads that have gone off the rails.

Yes the Porsche should have given the point by. However, why the hell didn't the Mustang driver simply go through the pits to find some open track??? He bears 100% responsibility
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Akunob
Let’s take it down a notch, I don’t see a power trip just an organizer trying to wrap their mind around the mindset of a driver. I understand what you are trying to say but while we both agree that the GT3 driver should have pointed bye the Mustang, it doesn’t mean he shares any responsibility for being hit. Letting a nut behind you through clearly decreases the chances of that nut t-boning you however not letting the nut through doesn’t mean you are partially responsible for the nut ramming you! This is all most of us are saying!

Mustang man should have controlled his emotions in that situation and as a result better controlled his car for the safety of both him and other drivers sharing the track with him. The error is all Mustang man, although we agree that the GT3 probably should have pointed him by earlier.
I said it tongue in cheek earlier but I think there is a cautionary tale in that you need to be aware of the folks around you on track. Had the GT3 driver let the mustang by earlier there is no incident. Had the mustang driver backed off or went through hot pits, there is also no incident. I have come off track before when I felt uncomfortable with the level of driving around me.
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