Nice WGI baseline lap
06-06-2019, 11:37 AM
#31
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Start slowly winding hands out of 2 and into 3 a tiny bit sooner, and the car will momentarily be wheels straight over that crest, and will thus feel totally stable.
I helped an experienced racer who is very well known and regarded in this forum with this exact thing a few years ago, and he picked up a full legitimate second of lap time....just from that tiny change.
I helped an experienced racer who is very well known and regarded in this forum with this exact thing a few years ago, and he picked up a full legitimate second of lap time....just from that tiny change.
06-06-2019, 11:37 AM
#32
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Turn 1 for instance, from behind the wheel, seems like a normal tight right hander with a bit of camber at apex.
Stand on top of that turn closer to the bleachers, and it's like standing in the last row of an amphitheatre looking down on the stage.
You don't see that from behind the wheel, and that has definitely made me faster through T-1.
Just knowing how banked that turn is helped me go a lot faster though there. When you're standing on top of that turn, your mind can't play tricks on you. You see the amount of camber there and I don't ever see that from behind the wheel.
Matt Romanowski does great track walks at The Glen. Did a few with him. Learned a ton from him on those walks. Same with JT from Niagara Region. Did the track walk with him a couple weeks ago, and I learned lots of new stuff every time I do a track walk.
You can't get that kind of info from watching in car videos. You have to walk the track. Pretty amazing stuff.
06-06-2019, 11:38 AM
#33
So it's not my imagination. That crown is there. That's good to hear.
Good advice for sure Paul. I'll work on it.
As to your other question, yes, I used to lift going into 2 but not any more. I'm pretty much full throttle from the track out of 1 all the way to 5 with only that slight lift at the crown in 3 mid track.
Haven't lifted going into 2 for a while now. Got over that quickly when an instructor pointed it out to me. He told me to cheat in to the right a bit earlier and don't lift before 2, and it's been that way ever since. The power of coaching rearing its head.
Something about that crown mid track between 2 and 3 though. It is causing me to lift still. Just a very slight lift, but a lift nonetheless. I will work on it. Would love to stay at full power from 1 to 5 like you guys do, but that damn crown. It's there. I feel it. My sense of self preservation kicks in and then the slight lift, then back to full throttle.
I will work on it (not lifting there). Yes, there is a lot of track, but I feel that crown right under my butt and I am lifting slightly to settle the car. Habitually, so I need to break that bad habit. I just feel safer with that very slight lift. I suck.
Something to work on for sure. Thanks....
Good advice for sure Paul. I'll work on it.
As to your other question, yes, I used to lift going into 2 but not any more. I'm pretty much full throttle from the track out of 1 all the way to 5 with only that slight lift at the crown in 3 mid track.
Haven't lifted going into 2 for a while now. Got over that quickly when an instructor pointed it out to me. He told me to cheat in to the right a bit earlier and don't lift before 2, and it's been that way ever since. The power of coaching rearing its head.
Something about that crown mid track between 2 and 3 though. It is causing me to lift still. Just a very slight lift, but a lift nonetheless. I will work on it. Would love to stay at full power from 1 to 5 like you guys do, but that damn crown. It's there. I feel it. My sense of self preservation kicks in and then the slight lift, then back to full throttle.
I will work on it (not lifting there). Yes, there is a lot of track, but I feel that crown right under my butt and I am lifting slightly to settle the car. Habitually, so I need to break that bad habit. I just feel safer with that very slight lift. I suck.
Something to work on for sure. Thanks....
06-06-2019, 11:39 AM
#34
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Start slowly winding hands out of 2 and into 3 a tiny bit sooner, and the car will momentarily be wheels straight over that crest, and will thus feel totally stable.
I helped an experienced racer who is very well known and regarded in this forum with this exact thing a few years ago, and he picked up a full legitimate second of lap time....just from that tiny change.
I helped an experienced racer who is very well known and regarded in this forum with this exact thing a few years ago, and he picked up a full legitimate second of lap time....just from that tiny change.
06-06-2019, 11:46 AM
#35
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The esses are interesting because so many people are actually not nearly as definitive enough with their inputs because you can "float" up the middle of the track and you will make it... The fastest drivers are very definitive with their inputs hugging the right side of the curbing all the way to the end and then making a definitive transition to the left side curbing and then getting all the way to right side curbing at the top... To VR's phenomenal point it actually drives the car straight for a split second as well. As you become more definitive in your car positioning your eyes move further ahead and you focus far less on the crown... I'm "guessing" if you are lifting there your also dropping your eyes at the same time, the opposite of what you want to be doing which is already thinking about getting over for the exit of the esses, looking through the flag tower, finding the bus stop and driving with your eyes up...
I am not focusing on it. I'm just feeling it.
My eyes are up, way up. Never down. That crown is a "feel it " thing to me, not a "see it" thing.
I am not anticipating it coming up, I am just feeling it when I get there.
Maybe subconsciously I am anticipating it, who knows, but it's more of a feel it thing and then comes the lift. I think someone in my right seat will help a lot with that as I seem to do it (slight lift) almost every lap.
Thanks again for the info and advice.
06-06-2019, 11:53 AM
#37
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Hopefully I can do a track walk with you one of these days, events, seasons, years, etc. Look forward to it. Always very helpful.
06-06-2019, 01:33 PM
#38
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There is a bump in three at the middle of the track just after the area where the access road comes in. The attached shot shows where it is. It has been there since the repave, but most folks never noticed it. A few years of winters has made it a bit more noticeable. Peter Argetsinger and I had a long discussion about it after the track opened post repave and It took me finding it in the shock data to prove it!
Varying your turn in slightly from the end of the white line/end of curb/start of the road to a few feet past will change the stability of the car quite a bit. I've also found the older line of slightly wider in 2 helps in this area as well in some cars.
The aging of the track has also been interesting. The outside of one has a ~.75 lip in-between the pavement sections. The NY winters are starting to show a little. Overall it's still a great surface and one of the best right now, but it will be interesting to see how it holds up.
Varying your turn in slightly from the end of the white line/end of curb/start of the road to a few feet past will change the stability of the car quite a bit. I've also found the older line of slightly wider in 2 helps in this area as well in some cars.
The aging of the track has also been interesting. The outside of one has a ~.75 lip in-between the pavement sections. The NY winters are starting to show a little. Overall it's still a great surface and one of the best right now, but it will be interesting to see how it holds up.
06-06-2019, 01:43 PM
#39
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There is a bump in three at the middle of the track just after the area where the access road comes in. The attached shot shows where it is. It has been there since the repave, but most folks never noticed it. A few years of winters has made it a bit more noticeable. Peter Argetsinger and I had a long discussion about it after the track opened post repave and It took me finding it in the shock data to prove it!
Varying your turn in slightly from the end of the white line/end of curb/start of the road to a few feet past will change the stability of the car quite a bit. I've also found the older line of slightly wider in 2 helps in this area as well in some cars.
The aging of the track has also been interesting. The outside of one has a ~.75 lip in-between the pavement sections. The NY winters are starting to show a little. Overall it's still a great surface and one of the best right now, but it will be interesting to see how it holds up.
Varying your turn in slightly from the end of the white line/end of curb/start of the road to a few feet past will change the stability of the car quite a bit. I've also found the older line of slightly wider in 2 helps in this area as well in some cars.
The aging of the track has also been interesting. The outside of one has a ~.75 lip in-between the pavement sections. The NY winters are starting to show a little. Overall it's still a great surface and one of the best right now, but it will be interesting to see how it holds up.
Pretty sure the "crown" I am feeling is about a car lengths ahead of the spot in your pic.
You could be correct though and I might be feeling it sooner than I realize and that's what's causing the slight lift.
I will give your varying the turn in a shot and see what happens.
I am at the Glen 5 straight days starting Weds next week so I'll have plenty of time to practice and play with it (the crown I mean--get your minds out of the gutter !!).
I plan to use those 5 days to have a bunch of instructors, including Peter, in my right seat for at least one or two sessions each day.
Maybe by the end of the 5 days, I will have overcome my "fear of crowns". Will report back then and see how it goes.
Thanks for all the advice RL people. Very much appreciated.
06-06-2019, 02:52 PM
#40
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There is a bump in three at the middle of the track just after the area where the access road comes in. The attached shot shows where it is. It has been there since the repave, but most folks never noticed it. A few years of winters has made it a bit more noticeable. Peter Argetsinger and I had a long discussion about it after the track opened post repave and It took me finding it in the shock data to prove it!
Varying your turn in slightly from the end of the white line/end of curb/start of the road to a few feet past will change the stability of the car quite a bit. I've also found the older line of slightly wider in 2 helps in this area as well in some cars.
The aging of the track has also been interesting. The outside of one has a ~.75 lip in-between the pavement sections. The NY winters are starting to show a little. Overall it's still a great surface and one of the best right now, but it will be interesting to see how it holds up.
Varying your turn in slightly from the end of the white line/end of curb/start of the road to a few feet past will change the stability of the car quite a bit. I've also found the older line of slightly wider in 2 helps in this area as well in some cars.
The aging of the track has also been interesting. The outside of one has a ~.75 lip in-between the pavement sections. The NY winters are starting to show a little. Overall it's still a great surface and one of the best right now, but it will be interesting to see how it holds up.
06-06-2019, 02:58 PM
#41
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The biggest thing I notice about that lap is how stable the car is. Whoever set that car up did a fantastic job. Very stable platform, no drama. Not taking anything away from Leh, he is a great shoe, but koodoo's to the shop and mechanics.
06-06-2019, 05:38 PM
#43
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06-06-2019, 10:17 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by Bill Lehman
Here's my fast lap at WGI. Stock GT4 with R7s and a track alignment. Comments please.
Use ALL of the flat apex curbing in 1. The farther in you get, the more entry speed you can carry, and the sooner you can release steering. All of these have a direct impact on MPH all the way to the Bus Stop, and thus a huge impact on lap time.
You can be WOT into and through 2 in 4th gear. Also a huge impact on time.
You can be WOT all the way up the esses. Same huge impact.
Put in a couple more degrees of steering across the 4th curb of the Bus Stop. This will get you down into the low groove way sooner, and allow you to use WOT all the way around that groove and out. Again, big impact on time.