nowata

As a ski racer we talk about holding a high line or turning early rather than skiing to the gate. The idea is to avoid progressively later turns which eventually lead to scrubbing speed or skiing out. Granted you can be too conservative and, consequently, slow as well.

Is this essentially the same as running a late apex? On a hill the concept of holding a high line is immediately clear rather than dropping to the gate.

fatbillybob

I think there are many parallels. I think you mean the high line as classic line. It is like the safe late apex. The aggressive line in skiing or on track increases your commitment and inability to recover from an error...i.e. more risk. Problems in patience, turn initiation, commitment are very similar to stuff like trail braking where someone gets on the gas too early arriving at the apex and then having to let off and then commit to throttle again. Those things cost you time.

I'm not a ski racer but have ski raced to a limited degree over many decades. I'm still a relic skiing "FIS world cup" slalom skis as all mountain skis. So I think I know where you are going and yes you are on the right track.

winders

The "high line" in ski racing is just like a late apex in car racing. That is a nice safe line but generally not the fastest. The faster and more control I got skiing, the lower my line got. The same has been true in car racing. The faster I get, the earlier my apexes get.

Sweeper

Done both, skiing and racing, and this rings very true.. Not the fastest for every corner

jdistefa

^ What they said.

T14a at VIR is a classic example of where it pays to have a high line so one can then 'ski' down roller coaster into hog's pen.

The other parallel (ski joke) is to avoid holding the ski/car on the high line if doing so is going to create too much scrub or distance travelled. Sometimes it's best to let the ski/car 'run' to maintain speed and momentum and then gradually try to recover optimal line over the next turns.

As with all things it depends on skill, tactics, consistency, speed on any given turn shape, elevation changes, grip, feel. Often one can go faster on a greater distance travelled line.

Thomas Grandi tended to ski a higher rounder line (more distance travelled) in GS and was a consistent podium threat with a kickass win at Alta Badia using a rather round line.

Bode did whatever the hell he wanted. Often a very direct early apex risk line. Risk:reward was high. Master at letting the ski run even when perilously off line.

Ted Ligety somewhere in between.

There are similar basic principles but no absolutes. Run as fast as you can on a given line and don't make errors

Veloce Raptor

I just wanna see more of Lindsey Vonn...wearing less

jdistefa

Meh. Saw her from time to time in my previous life. Much more a fan of Julia Mancuso

Veloce Raptor

I wouldn't deny her either! But I believe she is married

GT3 Techno

This is really similar only in a situation where you have two corners very close to each other so you take a high line to be ready for the next opposite direction corner. On a slalom ski course this obviously applies to almost every corner.

ProCoach

agree with this and jdstefa’s example.

mobius911

Was thinking about this recently as well, and there are a number of similarities. Probably why the Mahres (and others) got into car racing after retiring from the World Cup- it pushes the same buttons. Here are some overlaps I see (others have noted many of them):

• Line is critical to a fast run/lap
• A stivot is very similar to 'rotating' the car- deliberately inducing a higher slip angle at rear to change direction faster
• Course/track camber has to be taken into account
• Just like a series of turns on a road course, sometimes the fastest ski line has to be sacrificed to optimize the final corner, such as going from a flush to a hairpin in slalom
• Load change fore/aft and side to side is similar, and understeer and oversteer concepts are similar. Did Lindsey go off with her tips leading, or her butt leading?

ProCoach

^^This^^

Tips leading...

Veloce Raptor

Now I'm in my happy place

ProCoach

Hahaha! It's all geometry.

The rate, location relative to the corner and the amplitude of the direction change...

Veloce Raptor

Mmm hmmm...geometry...