10/10ths
04-11-2019, 02:59 PM
#1
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10/10ths
While I'm not even close to this level, I'm trying to conceptualize how the idea of driving 10/10ths plays out in testing, qualifying, and racing. Would love some input from the experienced racers and coaches out there. Here's my current thinking - please shoot it full of holes:
10/10ths driving is using 100% of the track, car, and traction through 100% of the course. This would meaning you're 1) driving the perfect line for your platform 2) at the limit through entry, mid-corner, and exit of every corner 3) leaving absolutely no room for error
The only time you should be driving 10/10ths is qualifying, as the risk is too high, and the concentration required too much to do this during a test, race, etc. Even then, full 10/10ths should only be done during the few "flyer" laps where you're really trying to put down the best lap time possible for qualifying.
It's also possible to drive 10/10ths through specific corners during testing, qualifying or racing, in order to practice those areas, to make a pass, etc. Or, perhaps you'll consistently drive 10/10ths in a corner that has lots of room for runoff or error where you can consistently drive this corner at the limit.
9/10ths driving would be deliberately taking some speed off in strategic "high risk" areas of the track, where you would want to leave some margin for error. This might only leave a couple seconds or .1's of seconds on the table, but is a consistent fast speed you can keep up for the duration of a race. Races should be run at 9/10ths, with the exception of the first couple laps, or when trying to make passes, etc.
7 or 8/10ths might be where you are not approaching the limit of grip or limit of the track. This would be during warm-up, or practice while learning a track. You're providing enough room in your driving style to ensure that there's a low likelihood of an off-track excursion. However, you're consistently bringing the car up to speed and testing the limits in specific areas in preparation for the qualifying lap.
Any thoughts appreciated!
10/10ths driving is using 100% of the track, car, and traction through 100% of the course. This would meaning you're 1) driving the perfect line for your platform 2) at the limit through entry, mid-corner, and exit of every corner 3) leaving absolutely no room for error
The only time you should be driving 10/10ths is qualifying, as the risk is too high, and the concentration required too much to do this during a test, race, etc. Even then, full 10/10ths should only be done during the few "flyer" laps where you're really trying to put down the best lap time possible for qualifying.
It's also possible to drive 10/10ths through specific corners during testing, qualifying or racing, in order to practice those areas, to make a pass, etc. Or, perhaps you'll consistently drive 10/10ths in a corner that has lots of room for runoff or error where you can consistently drive this corner at the limit.
9/10ths driving would be deliberately taking some speed off in strategic "high risk" areas of the track, where you would want to leave some margin for error. This might only leave a couple seconds or .1's of seconds on the table, but is a consistent fast speed you can keep up for the duration of a race. Races should be run at 9/10ths, with the exception of the first couple laps, or when trying to make passes, etc.
7 or 8/10ths might be where you are not approaching the limit of grip or limit of the track. This would be during warm-up, or practice while learning a track. You're providing enough room in your driving style to ensure that there's a low likelihood of an off-track excursion. However, you're consistently bringing the car up to speed and testing the limits in specific areas in preparation for the qualifying lap.
Any thoughts appreciated!
04-11-2019, 03:14 PM
#2
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Please realize that getting everything out of the car requires a thorough understanding of the limits and specific characteristics of the tires being used. Please also remember that every and any car can always be driven just a little bit faster by someone else 
04-11-2019, 03:36 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
#1 does not apply or, at least, does not apply all the time. You can be making a pass and getting everything out of the car and not be on a "perfect line." And I agree with Dave, your 10/10ths may not be the same as the next guys.
04-11-2019, 03:41 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
10/10th means you will crash sooner than driving 9/10th or 8/10th. As you move up the ladder, errors have bigger consequences and its only a matter of time as you drive each lap at the limit, yours and your ride.
When I raced I raced to win, and did often. I also bought a few race cars. When racing to win 10/10th is the goals and my 10/10th may be better than yours. But the reality is you increase your odds of crashing exponentially.
Now, practice laps are race laps. Period.
That is if you are practicing to win.
When I raced I raced to win, and did often. I also bought a few race cars. When racing to win 10/10th is the goals and my 10/10th may be better than yours. But the reality is you increase your odds of crashing exponentially.
Now, practice laps are race laps. Period.
That is if you are practicing to win.
Last edited by 996AE; 04-11-2019 at 08:53 PM.
04-11-2019, 04:29 PM
#6
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Keep in mind, at least for myself, does everyone drive 10/10s every lap and every turn? Also, if you can take a turn (theoretically) perfectly is that 10/10s? Or is driving 10/10s only where there is risk?
10/10s is very subjective. Some drivers are very smooth and some manhandle the car. The latter may seem like they are driving 10/10s just because of the motion of the car. But is it?
I know when I am driving 10/10s. Do others know when I am? Maybe, but I doubt it, other than to see a low lap time. But then you can get into a discussion about lap times based on conditions.
10/10s is difficult to define.
10/10s is very subjective. Some drivers are very smooth and some manhandle the car. The latter may seem like they are driving 10/10s just because of the motion of the car. But is it?
I know when I am driving 10/10s. Do others know when I am? Maybe, but I doubt it, other than to see a low lap time. But then you can get into a discussion about lap times based on conditions.
10/10s is difficult to define.
04-11-2019, 04:50 PM
#7
Instructor
10/10ths is an interesting thing. To me there are a few different versions of 10/10ths.
As you said, a qualifying 10/10ths is being as on edge for as long as possible... without a mistake. I've never had the budget to repair a big hit in a cup, so my 10/10ths might be reached in a more conservative manner, but it's about maximizing the potential of the tyre on the track surface for a single lap. The most "raw" feeling of the traditional 10/10ths
A race, 10/10ths is what is needed to create the fastest total time, you just cant look at a 1hr run as 1hr of qualifying laps. "What can I do to create the best average over the entire time I'm in the car". That might mean lapping .2-.4 off what I know the car could do at that moment, but making sure I can keep that pace the entire time (so 9.5/10ths becomes the new 10/10ths). 10/10ths in the race brings in another statement I drive by, Minimize time lost! Dont stuff it down every lapped car in hope they move, understand the situation and quickly calculate what move loses the least amount of time. Then get right back up to that targeted lap instantly. It's being aggressive in and out of the pits, wasting no time on cold tyres, hitting every apex, and pushing the car without creating unneeded wear on the equipment.
Can the race 10/10ths be substituted and the bar raised to a qualifying 1/10ths for a few laps if needed? Yes absolutely, but there is a bigger picture at play. Colin McRae drove at a qualifying 10/10ths in a race environment, and it shows with his single championship and like 35 destroyed cars. Loeb drives at a race 10/10ths, as fast as he can knowing the bigger picture at play.
As you said, a qualifying 10/10ths is being as on edge for as long as possible... without a mistake. I've never had the budget to repair a big hit in a cup, so my 10/10ths might be reached in a more conservative manner, but it's about maximizing the potential of the tyre on the track surface for a single lap. The most "raw" feeling of the traditional 10/10ths
A race, 10/10ths is what is needed to create the fastest total time, you just cant look at a 1hr run as 1hr of qualifying laps. "What can I do to create the best average over the entire time I'm in the car". That might mean lapping .2-.4 off what I know the car could do at that moment, but making sure I can keep that pace the entire time (so 9.5/10ths becomes the new 10/10ths). 10/10ths in the race brings in another statement I drive by, Minimize time lost! Dont stuff it down every lapped car in hope they move, understand the situation and quickly calculate what move loses the least amount of time. Then get right back up to that targeted lap instantly. It's being aggressive in and out of the pits, wasting no time on cold tyres, hitting every apex, and pushing the car without creating unneeded wear on the equipment.
Can the race 10/10ths be substituted and the bar raised to a qualifying 1/10ths for a few laps if needed? Yes absolutely, but there is a bigger picture at play. Colin McRae drove at a qualifying 10/10ths in a race environment, and it shows with his single championship and like 35 destroyed cars. Loeb drives at a race 10/10ths, as fast as he can knowing the bigger picture at play.
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04-11-2019, 05:57 PM
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Brit, you're scaring me....
04-11-2019, 08:41 PM
#10
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If you practice at 9/10, you'll race at 9/10ths. Not good.
In qualifying I'll go 10/10ths unless some traffic screws up my lap. Then I'll reset and go again. If I made a mistake during my flying lap, I'll try again. Usually by then you pass the golden stage of the tires, and any further attempt is futile.
In spec racing you go 10/10ths from the drop of the green flag or you don't win. The only way I would drop down is if I had a big gap with a couple of laps to go. But that can be dangerous getting out of your rhythm.
In qualifying I'll go 10/10ths unless some traffic screws up my lap. Then I'll reset and go again. If I made a mistake during my flying lap, I'll try again. Usually by then you pass the golden stage of the tires, and any further attempt is futile.
In spec racing you go 10/10ths from the drop of the green flag or you don't win. The only way I would drop down is if I had a big gap with a couple of laps to go. But that can be dangerous getting out of your rhythm.
04-11-2019, 08:56 PM
#11
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Some people racing laps at 10/10th are other peoples parade lap speeds.
Having "practice laps" with pros I can tell you that pro drives with sponsors buying their repairs and cars they drive with a little more abandon and of course many have more skill.
When I total a car I write the check. Not my imaginary sponsor.
Key, and back to the question is get a pro coach to show you just how slow you are and how much more work there is to do to drive consistently at the edge.
Having "practice laps" with pros I can tell you that pro drives with sponsors buying their repairs and cars they drive with a little more abandon and of course many have more skill.
When I total a car I write the check. Not my imaginary sponsor.
Key, and back to the question is get a pro coach to show you just how slow you are and how much more work there is to do to drive consistently at the edge.
04-11-2019, 09:07 PM
#12
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Good advice
04-11-2019, 11:19 PM
#13
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From my website:
“Tenths,” and their appropriate use on the track...
When I describe "tenths,” or the system of assigning a relative speed, level of concentration or demonstration of car physics on-track to someone, it usually follows these definitions.
3/10 is driving on a flat, straight and level road with no distractions.
4/10 is driving on a gently curving Interstate with low traffic density at a higher rate of speed than at 3/10.
5/10 is driving quickly, but efficiently and at the speed limit on the street, more concentration required due to more "hazards" present.
6/10 is a standard DE lap or an out lap early on in a race weekend, for me. The purpose may be to re-familiarize myself with the race track, enjoy a relaxed lap or just "cruise" around and, in particular, designed to take NOTHING out of the car. This is also the level of driving quickly on the Interstate with a fair bit of traffic at higher speeds.
7/10 is a more aggressive DE level, designed to begin to "move the car around" and just a little more taxing on the car. Also, 7/10 can be an out lap later on in a race weekend, usually the result of greater confidence and familiarity. Relatively wide variation in lap time depending on traffic and concentration.
8/10 is an easily sustained level, requiring high levels of concentration, generally attained after the first few laps of a race or enduro when the dust settles and you slide into driving quickly and accurately, but are not locked in a battle that is external to you and your car. The car is sliding, but only at the beginning or the end of a corner and not at all corners and not on all laps. Generally laps are within .8-1.5 seconds apart and relatively consistent. This is the level I am most comfortable taking people around the track. Plenty of "headroom" and margin for error or changeable track conditions.
9/10 is driving pretty hard, but is sustainable, repeatable and the driver is still relatively accurate in their placement of the car. The car is now sliding much of the time, the driver is focused on catching someone or staying ahead of someone but is maintaining control and discipline of their own mind and of the car. At this point, the driver is using most of the width of the road, but not much curbing, and is focusing on drawing large arcs with the path of the car. The rhythm is such that the lap times are generally within .2 -.8 seconds apart, barring traffic or mistakes. This is my limit for one or two "hot laps" with someone riding with me.
9.5/10 is driving hard. More sliding, slightly quicker laps still than at 9/10. Less margin for error, a lot more work being done by the car. The driver is now "guiding" the car on a path selected well in advance. The car is sliding from turn-in, through the apex and is using the entire width of the paved track, plus the inside curbs. Cannot generally be sustained for more than five or six laps. I would not drive a car at this level with a passenger in it...
10/10 is when the skill level of a substantially experienced and supremely confident driver meets the competence level of the car nearly perfectly. The car is sliding nearly the entire lap. Slip angles of 7-12 degrees (DOT radials, less on radial slicks) are sustained through the entire length of most of the corners. The entire width of the road, plus the inside and outside (if available) curbing or pavement extensions are used, every corner, every lap. The previous lap is at 9 or 9.5/10 so that the "hot" lap is started at the greatest possible speed and with the highest possible concentration.
Typically, I drive 10/10's for one or two qualifying laps and my first few laps of the race to build a "gap" to the rest of the competition. I also drive 10/10's to experiment with changes made to the car or to evaluate tires in practice, not to mention putting in a "flyer" to achieve the psychological advantage of being on or near the top of the time sheet <grin>.
I may not drive 10/10’s more than a few laps during the weekend, but I pick and choose the time to do it. I feel like the car and I are balanced on a tightrope and I am constantly making tiny little corrections to adjust it's trajectory, with each correction making a difference... I'm not sure this level can be sustained more than two or three laps at a time. In order to be successful at the highest level of most organized competition, you must be able to drive at this level.
11/10's is when your talent runs out! <very big grin>
“Tenths,” and their appropriate use on the track...
When I describe "tenths,” or the system of assigning a relative speed, level of concentration or demonstration of car physics on-track to someone, it usually follows these definitions.
3/10 is driving on a flat, straight and level road with no distractions.
4/10 is driving on a gently curving Interstate with low traffic density at a higher rate of speed than at 3/10.
5/10 is driving quickly, but efficiently and at the speed limit on the street, more concentration required due to more "hazards" present.
6/10 is a standard DE lap or an out lap early on in a race weekend, for me. The purpose may be to re-familiarize myself with the race track, enjoy a relaxed lap or just "cruise" around and, in particular, designed to take NOTHING out of the car. This is also the level of driving quickly on the Interstate with a fair bit of traffic at higher speeds.
7/10 is a more aggressive DE level, designed to begin to "move the car around" and just a little more taxing on the car. Also, 7/10 can be an out lap later on in a race weekend, usually the result of greater confidence and familiarity. Relatively wide variation in lap time depending on traffic and concentration.
8/10 is an easily sustained level, requiring high levels of concentration, generally attained after the first few laps of a race or enduro when the dust settles and you slide into driving quickly and accurately, but are not locked in a battle that is external to you and your car. The car is sliding, but only at the beginning or the end of a corner and not at all corners and not on all laps. Generally laps are within .8-1.5 seconds apart and relatively consistent. This is the level I am most comfortable taking people around the track. Plenty of "headroom" and margin for error or changeable track conditions.
9/10 is driving pretty hard, but is sustainable, repeatable and the driver is still relatively accurate in their placement of the car. The car is now sliding much of the time, the driver is focused on catching someone or staying ahead of someone but is maintaining control and discipline of their own mind and of the car. At this point, the driver is using most of the width of the road, but not much curbing, and is focusing on drawing large arcs with the path of the car. The rhythm is such that the lap times are generally within .2 -.8 seconds apart, barring traffic or mistakes. This is my limit for one or two "hot laps" with someone riding with me.
9.5/10 is driving hard. More sliding, slightly quicker laps still than at 9/10. Less margin for error, a lot more work being done by the car. The driver is now "guiding" the car on a path selected well in advance. The car is sliding from turn-in, through the apex and is using the entire width of the paved track, plus the inside curbs. Cannot generally be sustained for more than five or six laps. I would not drive a car at this level with a passenger in it...
10/10 is when the skill level of a substantially experienced and supremely confident driver meets the competence level of the car nearly perfectly. The car is sliding nearly the entire lap. Slip angles of 7-12 degrees (DOT radials, less on radial slicks) are sustained through the entire length of most of the corners. The entire width of the road, plus the inside and outside (if available) curbing or pavement extensions are used, every corner, every lap. The previous lap is at 9 or 9.5/10 so that the "hot" lap is started at the greatest possible speed and with the highest possible concentration.
Typically, I drive 10/10's for one or two qualifying laps and my first few laps of the race to build a "gap" to the rest of the competition. I also drive 10/10's to experiment with changes made to the car or to evaluate tires in practice, not to mention putting in a "flyer" to achieve the psychological advantage of being on or near the top of the time sheet <grin>.
I may not drive 10/10’s more than a few laps during the weekend, but I pick and choose the time to do it. I feel like the car and I are balanced on a tightrope and I am constantly making tiny little corrections to adjust it's trajectory, with each correction making a difference... I'm not sure this level can be sustained more than two or three laps at a time. In order to be successful at the highest level of most organized competition, you must be able to drive at this level.
11/10's is when your talent runs out! <very big grin>
04-12-2019, 12:02 AM
#14
04-12-2019, 12:56 AM
#15
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Winning races is not about driving 10/10ths but bringing your car home in one piece while finishing ahead of everybody else.
Qualifying is all about managing that one flyer. In large fields you might already catch the tail end of the grid in your 3rd lap so after your warm up lap, you might only have one single attempt at the perfect lap if you want to grid up front.
The first lap of the race is not about going 10/10ths but picking the right lane and maximizing your Gs with the tires not fully up,to temp. After your first lap, you really only want to go as fast as you have to. Whether that’s catching somebody ahead of you or keeping a gap to somebody behind you.
Also: Smooth is usually fast.
Qualifying is all about managing that one flyer. In large fields you might already catch the tail end of the grid in your 3rd lap so after your warm up lap, you might only have one single attempt at the perfect lap if you want to grid up front.
The first lap of the race is not about going 10/10ths but picking the right lane and maximizing your Gs with the tires not fully up,to temp. After your first lap, you really only want to go as fast as you have to. Whether that’s catching somebody ahead of you or keeping a gap to somebody behind you.
Also: Smooth is usually fast.