IndyCar vs F1 at COTA
03-26-2019, 08:48 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Interesting, thanks for the post. I'll be there this weekend for PCA Club Race. Wonder facility, but track limits will be a big topic! I've been in the control room and they have 20-30 TV screens and many volunteers watching so not much gets missed.
03-27-2019, 09:05 AM
#4
The Mazda MX5 race was even more incredible in their ignoring of track limits. At times, they seemed to track out into the next county. I am reminded that last year at PCA COTA, in the Spec Boxster race, the two leaders, Chris Drake and John Gladwill, were both disqualified for exceeding track limits in the final turn. And they didn't get anywhere near as far off the racing surface as the cars last weekend.
03-27-2019, 12:02 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
[inhales deeply] the track is an arbitrary expression of man's attempt to confine speed and distance and its limits are bounded only by man's own imagination..... you can't be over the limit of the track if the track is unlimited in your own mind which is truly unlimited...... [exhales, passes out]
Last edited by DTMiller; 03-27-2019 at 12:22 PM.
03-27-2019, 01:17 PM
#6
[inhales deeply] the track is an arbitrary expression of man's attempt to confine speed and distance and its limits are bounded only by man's own imagination..... you can't be over the limit of the track if the track is unlimited in your own mind which is truly unlimited...... [exhales, passes out]
03-27-2019, 01:18 PM
#7
The Penguin King
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The Mazda MX5 race was even more incredible in their ignoring of track limits. At times, they seemed to track out into the next county. I am reminded that last year at PCA COTA, in the Spec Boxster race, the two leaders, Chris Drake and John Gladwill, were both disqualified for exceeding track limits in the final turn. And they didn't get anywhere near as far off the racing surface as the cars last weekend.
Im not crazy about it, but I can tell you that while it may make the track faster, it doesn’t make the track easier to drive.
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03-27-2019, 02:06 PM
#8
Administrator - "Tyson"
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https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ta/3267734002/
I just don’t think IndyCar had a better option with Turn 19. The only other choice was for IndyCar Race Control to try and enforce the limit and start racking up the penalties. One, two, 10, 20, 100...
“In the open test here (in February), there were hundreds of violations,” Ryan Hunter-Reay said shortly after finishing third at Sunday's IndyCar Classic. “You don't want to be watching a race and cars start peeling off the track from penalties from race control. Why? He was an inch and a half wide from this corner. … I think race control had its hands tied on this.”
He’s right. It would have been a nightmare to 1) Keep track of all the violations; and 2) Constantly watch drivers’ days ruined because theirs wheel were barely over the edge. That would have made for a tedious race to watch.
Furthermore, IndyCar couldn’t even guarantee it would be able to perfectly police the issue. There was no raised curbs or timing loop set up for Turn 19, so race control calls would likely have been inconsistent and caused a myriad controversies akin to some recent Formula One races at COTA.
So instead, IndyCar just let them race. And frankly, it introduced some intriguing strategy. Cars were actually a hair quicker through the turn swinging way out wide like that, though it usually came at the expense of some speed into Turn 20.
Watching teams and drivers having to make that calculation 60 times on Sunday was fascinating. Now, maybe someone Felix Rosenqvist doesn’t agree, since no track limit in Turn 19 was the likely culprit for the incident between he and James Hinchcliffe that wound up ruining Rosenqvist's day. But again, IndyCar didn’t really have a better option, and he knew the risks of swinging out wide. In fact, Rosenqvist came out in support of no track limits on Friday, rightly saying it’s “the same for everyone.”
Josef Newgarden, who was on record as saying he’d prefer track limits, agreed with Rosenqvist.
“I didn't have a big problem with it,” the runner-up Newgarden said post-race. “Seemed like it was fair enough. You got a lot of side-by-side, you had a place to go if you got knocked off. You had to know in your mind that's racing ground. Again, it just takes out that equation where race control can get involved. At the end of the day, sometimes that's a good thing.”
He is no way saying having no limits is ideal. I don’t think anyone wants that. In fact, Hunter-Reay and Newgarden said the paddock will continue to discuss what a better option might be for next year. Frankly, I’m not sure what that is.
Fortunately, it’s not my job to come up with a solution, so I’ll finish by reiterating that IndyCar made the right call for Sunday’s race. In the future, maybe there will be a better option. But given what the series was working with, I think it asked itself one critical question -- What’s best for the show? -- and answered it the right way.
It’s not the only question IndyCar needs to ask itself when making a controversial ruling, but it’s often the most important one. And IndyCar got it right on Sunday.
“In the open test here (in February), there were hundreds of violations,” Ryan Hunter-Reay said shortly after finishing third at Sunday's IndyCar Classic. “You don't want to be watching a race and cars start peeling off the track from penalties from race control. Why? He was an inch and a half wide from this corner. … I think race control had its hands tied on this.”
He’s right. It would have been a nightmare to 1) Keep track of all the violations; and 2) Constantly watch drivers’ days ruined because theirs wheel were barely over the edge. That would have made for a tedious race to watch.
Furthermore, IndyCar couldn’t even guarantee it would be able to perfectly police the issue. There was no raised curbs or timing loop set up for Turn 19, so race control calls would likely have been inconsistent and caused a myriad controversies akin to some recent Formula One races at COTA.
So instead, IndyCar just let them race. And frankly, it introduced some intriguing strategy. Cars were actually a hair quicker through the turn swinging way out wide like that, though it usually came at the expense of some speed into Turn 20.
Watching teams and drivers having to make that calculation 60 times on Sunday was fascinating. Now, maybe someone Felix Rosenqvist doesn’t agree, since no track limit in Turn 19 was the likely culprit for the incident between he and James Hinchcliffe that wound up ruining Rosenqvist's day. But again, IndyCar didn’t really have a better option, and he knew the risks of swinging out wide. In fact, Rosenqvist came out in support of no track limits on Friday, rightly saying it’s “the same for everyone.”
Josef Newgarden, who was on record as saying he’d prefer track limits, agreed with Rosenqvist.
“I didn't have a big problem with it,” the runner-up Newgarden said post-race. “Seemed like it was fair enough. You got a lot of side-by-side, you had a place to go if you got knocked off. You had to know in your mind that's racing ground. Again, it just takes out that equation where race control can get involved. At the end of the day, sometimes that's a good thing.”
He is no way saying having no limits is ideal. I don’t think anyone wants that. In fact, Hunter-Reay and Newgarden said the paddock will continue to discuss what a better option might be for next year. Frankly, I’m not sure what that is.
Fortunately, it’s not my job to come up with a solution, so I’ll finish by reiterating that IndyCar made the right call for Sunday’s race. In the future, maybe there will be a better option. But given what the series was working with, I think it asked itself one critical question -- What’s best for the show? -- and answered it the right way.
It’s not the only question IndyCar needs to ask itself when making a controversial ruling, but it’s often the most important one. And IndyCar got it right on Sunday.
03-27-2019, 02:20 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
If they don't want you exceeding the track limits, then put sausage curbs out there, or put gravel or grass or something. Or redesign the track so it's not an advantage to go that wide. Racers will take advantage anything they can get.
BTW, I thought it was a great race, except for how the yellow screwed Rossi ( and Power). Colton drove a great race, but wouldn't have won if it wasn't for that dumb pits closed rule.
It still astonishes me how slow Indycar is cleaning up wrecks. It was one car near the pits, and it still took around 15 minutes. Ridiculous!
BTW, I thought it was a great race, except for how the yellow screwed Rossi ( and Power). Colton drove a great race, but wouldn't have won if it wasn't for that dumb pits closed rule.
It still astonishes me how slow Indycar is cleaning up wrecks. It was one car near the pits, and it still took around 15 minutes. Ridiculous!
03-27-2019, 04:08 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
If they don't want you exceeding the track limits, then put sausage curbs out there, or put gravel or grass or something. Or redesign the track so it's not an advantage to go that wide. Racers will take advantage anything they can get.
BTW, I thought it was a great race, except for how the yellow screwed Rossi ( and Power). Colton drove a great race, but wouldn't have won if it wasn't for that dumb pits closed rule.
It still astonishes me how slow Indycar is cleaning up wrecks. It was one car near the pits, and it still took around 15 minutes. Ridiculous!
BTW, I thought it was a great race, except for how the yellow screwed Rossi ( and Power). Colton drove a great race, but wouldn't have won if it wasn't for that dumb pits closed rule.
It still astonishes me how slow Indycar is cleaning up wrecks. It was one car near the pits, and it still took around 15 minutes. Ridiculous!
03-27-2019, 04:55 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
As someone with thousands of laps on this track, I agree with Mglobe. And frankly, yeah, that move in 19 changed the outcome. Don't like the existing track limits? Then repaint the track and move the curbing. Otherwise, drive the track that's there. Which is what I hope and expect PCA will enforce this weekend.
03-28-2019, 03:20 PM
#13
Drifting
I know they have increased curbing in the past -- and some of the orange points become "hard" points.
If they raised the curbing at T19 (more, they did add a second higher row at one point) -- it would start to self regulate, or make the T19 apex less "run over me" friendly then the early apex, wide exit would not be the preferred line.
I've seen some creative lines through the Esses... hard points get painful here.
I've seen some aggressive T9 track outs from time to time as well.
Mike
If they raised the curbing at T19 (more, they did add a second higher row at one point) -- it would start to self regulate, or make the T19 apex less "run over me" friendly then the early apex, wide exit would not be the preferred line.
I've seen some creative lines through the Esses... hard points get painful here.
I've seen some aggressive T9 track outs from time to time as well.
Mike
03-28-2019, 08:02 PM
#14
The Penguin King
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03-30-2019, 12:24 AM
#15
Addict
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As someone with thousands of laps on this track, I agree with Mglobe. And frankly, yeah, that move in 19 changed the outcome. Don't like the existing track limits? Then repaint the track and move the curbing. Otherwise, drive the track that's there. Which is what I hope and expect PCA will enforce this weekend.