Sebring Punt
02-25-2019, 04:37 PM
#63
Punt?
The GT3 was visible in the mirror and when he came alongside he was clearly moving over. The driver on the outside was coasting towards the turn and according to the G meter, hadn't started braking.
If it were me, I'd have been out of that narrowing gap with a quick tap on the brakes to let the GT3 go thru.
The GT3 driver is clearly not driving well, but the other driver didn't have to let his car get hit. Anyway, why is a competition licensed (experienced?) driver in a DE event to begin with?
02-25-2019, 04:43 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
"Sebring punt"? Lesson...Don't be the ball, but if you are, expect to get kicked.
The GT3 was visible in the mirror and when he came alongside he was clearly moving over. The driver on the outside was coasting towards the turn and according to the G meter, hadn't started braking.
If it were me, I'd have been out of that narrowing gap with a quick tap on the brakes to let the GT3 go thru.
The GT3 driver is clearly not driving well, but the other driver didn't have to let his car get hit. Anyway, why is a competition licensed (experienced?) driver in a DE event to begin with?
The GT3 was visible in the mirror and when he came alongside he was clearly moving over. The driver on the outside was coasting towards the turn and according to the G meter, hadn't started braking.
If it were me, I'd have been out of that narrowing gap with a quick tap on the brakes to let the GT3 go thru.
The GT3 driver is clearly not driving well, but the other driver didn't have to let his car get hit. Anyway, why is a competition licensed (experienced?) driver in a DE event to begin with?
02-25-2019, 05:46 PM
#67
Drifting
I was out in Black on Sunday only - there were some groups (clumps) of cars with spotty driving but for the most part, thought it was pretty decent day. I had a couple of sessions where I had some pretty serious track separation. If I don't recognize the driver, I am very suspect of anybody I don't know going two abreast into a corner, for the most part - I'm pinching and slowing more than I'd like because I want to give extra room if I can't see you. In this case - the GT3 driver moved left from his line into you - that was wrong - sorry to hear this Mike
02-25-2019, 06:50 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
Even advanced drivers (and racers) can make boneheaded thoughtless mistakes. This looks like a completely boneheaded thoughtless mistake.
I dont care what group I am driving in, what the passing rules are, or who is running the event. I try to drive KNOWING that everyone around me is about to make a boneheaded thoughtless mistake. Even though this is a gentleman's hobby, regardless of fault people can get hurt.
The biggest error was the supposed lack of apology followed by the blatant lack of ANYTHING to post a thread with someone's personal information. Then followed by expectations of ANY monetary exchange. Just my humble opinion and I very well may feel the opposite if it were my car with fresh dents (not really since it is dented all over already).
I dont care what group I am driving in, what the passing rules are, or who is running the event. I try to drive KNOWING that everyone around me is about to make a boneheaded thoughtless mistake. Even though this is a gentleman's hobby, regardless of fault people can get hurt.
The biggest error was the supposed lack of apology followed by the blatant lack of ANYTHING to post a thread with someone's personal information. Then followed by expectations of ANY monetary exchange. Just my humble opinion and I very well may feel the opposite if it were my car with fresh dents (not really since it is dented all over already).
02-25-2019, 09:15 PM
#70
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
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This is 100% wrong. When you go on the track, DO NOT EXPECT SOMEONE TO PAY YOU! Each person decides on their own level of risk, insurance against that risk, and goes from there. If you expect anyone else to pay you for an incident, regardless of the situation, you should not be allowed on track. Back when I started driving on track, I was in a $5,000 914 along with $1 million dollar cars back then (550, Carrera GT, and more). No way I could have done anything for them if there was any issue.
I disagree with your lifting statement. Lifting is to facilitate a car with slower straightline speed passing a car with higher straightline speed. This is as far opposite of that as you can get.
This is a SPB against a GT3 with the GT3 taking a quite late pass (its a long way from T7 to T10 (T8/9 are flat) looking at the skills of the GT3 even if he would have made the pass he would have parked it in T10 and T11
This is a SPB against a GT3 with the GT3 taking a quite late pass (its a long way from T7 to T10 (T8/9 are flat) looking at the skills of the GT3 even if he would have made the pass he would have parked it in T10 and T11
In an advanced group you should be able to slip right onto the tail of the passing car with a minimum of lifting. If there is a faster driver, in a slower car, you may have to lift because they don;t have the horsepower to pass you. As MarcD pointed out above, that is not the case here. SPB was right where he needed to be doing what he needed to do. 100% GT3's fault in my book.
02-25-2019, 09:26 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
Man, I cant believe I'm getting in this....
My first reaction watching the video was "why did the OP "drive" him into the corner ? Its a DE. Let him go and give him space...
That said, it doesnt matter. There is no way the passing car should have ever moved back on line. He should have stayed off line. Whats the saying "I dont always take a late point by, but when I do, I sort my **** out !"
For me, this is kinda tragic. There is no need on either side, in a DE, for this to happen.
I was in the DE for the 48 at Sebring that Suncoast put on, preceded by the Dave Murry event. It is an entirely different world running in a DE than an open track event, and I'm sure even more different than an race environment. Plus, that event was an "advanced" which means that people newly signed off solo could have registered (at least that was my presumption). At times, I was kinda appalled at what I saw in the DE event with lack of awareness and driving, but I completely understood also that it was a DE and that part of what I signed up for was that I needed to "let it go" at time, and importantly, make the environment safe for me AND the others I was on track with. That means not running people into corners, and creating space for them when need be and not "harassing" them. I will get point bys when they are ready in the context of their capability. That was understood when I registered.
The thing is, that you never know who that other person is, or what they are comfortable with, in a DE... and this is a pretty ****ty way to find out (and also a bit brutal to post). I'm in violent agreement that there should have been a discussion in the paddock afterwards, but you also dont know all the other guys was dealing with. I've had incidents (on my own) and also had friends with car to car contact and they need to sort medical and vehicle and transportation and towing out and all sorts of stuff. It may have been less than intentional, although not optimal. I know I would have made the effort to speak, but I've been there myself and with friends and others and thru that know enough to make a priority.
Sincerely sorry for all the parties involved.
My first reaction watching the video was "why did the OP "drive" him into the corner ? Its a DE. Let him go and give him space...
That said, it doesnt matter. There is no way the passing car should have ever moved back on line. He should have stayed off line. Whats the saying "I dont always take a late point by, but when I do, I sort my **** out !"
For me, this is kinda tragic. There is no need on either side, in a DE, for this to happen.
I was in the DE for the 48 at Sebring that Suncoast put on, preceded by the Dave Murry event. It is an entirely different world running in a DE than an open track event, and I'm sure even more different than an race environment. Plus, that event was an "advanced" which means that people newly signed off solo could have registered (at least that was my presumption). At times, I was kinda appalled at what I saw in the DE event with lack of awareness and driving, but I completely understood also that it was a DE and that part of what I signed up for was that I needed to "let it go" at time, and importantly, make the environment safe for me AND the others I was on track with. That means not running people into corners, and creating space for them when need be and not "harassing" them. I will get point bys when they are ready in the context of their capability. That was understood when I registered.
The thing is, that you never know who that other person is, or what they are comfortable with, in a DE... and this is a pretty ****ty way to find out (and also a bit brutal to post). I'm in violent agreement that there should have been a discussion in the paddock afterwards, but you also dont know all the other guys was dealing with. I've had incidents (on my own) and also had friends with car to car contact and they need to sort medical and vehicle and transportation and towing out and all sorts of stuff. It may have been less than intentional, although not optimal. I know I would have made the effort to speak, but I've been there myself and with friends and others and thru that know enough to make a priority.
Sincerely sorry for all the parties involved.
02-25-2019, 09:28 PM
#72
Instructor
This is 100% wrong. When you go on the track, DO NOT EXPECT SOMEONE TO PAY YOU! Each person decides on their own level of risk, insurance against that risk, and goes from there. If you expect anyone else to pay you for an incident, regardless of the situation, you should not be allowed on track. Back when I started driving on track, I was in a $5,000 914 along with $1 million dollar cars back then (550, Carrera GT, and more). No way I could have done anything for them if there was any issue.
I guess we disagree, not sure someone can be 100 percent wrong on an opinion. It’s an opinion. You have good points, I don’t totally disagree, I insure my car and am prepared to pay for damage to my car either way but if I took someone out I would do my best to make it right and certainly would at least have a conversaton with the other party. To avoid the other party goes against the entire spirit of education.
02-25-2019, 10:48 PM
#74
Burning Brakes
Like most others have said, it is sad to see any car to car contact in a DE. Especially when this incident so clearly could have been avoided.
Personally, as an instructor who has driven with many different PCA regions at many different tracks, I like PCA's expanded passing policy. Learning how to drive through corners off line, and learning how to be more vigilant about watching your mirrors when doing so, are important skills for improving drivers to acquire. They raise the level of track awareness and that is good for all drivers. Unfortunately, the practice is very inconsistent from region to region and even from event to event within the same region.
When expanded passing is allowed at an event, more needs to be done at the drivers meeting to clarify the rules of engagement. The PCA policy clearly states that getting a point-by does NOT mean you own the corner. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the CI at this event failed to elaborate on this adequately.
Personally, as an instructor who has driven with many different PCA regions at many different tracks, I like PCA's expanded passing policy. Learning how to drive through corners off line, and learning how to be more vigilant about watching your mirrors when doing so, are important skills for improving drivers to acquire. They raise the level of track awareness and that is good for all drivers. Unfortunately, the practice is very inconsistent from region to region and even from event to event within the same region.
When expanded passing is allowed at an event, more needs to be done at the drivers meeting to clarify the rules of engagement. The PCA policy clearly states that getting a point-by does NOT mean you own the corner. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the CI at this event failed to elaborate on this adequately.
02-25-2019, 11:17 PM
#75
