Besides a full out race car what is the safest way to DE
01-19-2019, 05:55 PM
#31
01-19-2019, 06:04 PM
#33
Drifting
If you feel safe, then your running at 7/10.
01-19-2019, 06:05 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
01-19-2019, 06:05 PM
#35
But you are not. Streetcar survivability is about 50g's that is a 45mph delta according to a Toyota crash engineer I know. I do not know how much a helmet helps in a streetcar and there is no data for that. We do know black box pro racecar wrecks are survivable over 100g's. When people get rearended in streetcars you always hear about whiplash. I have had 2 hits in the rear in my racecar that totaled the other guy's car once and killed my car up to the rear rollcage stays. The last rearend I just got at Sebring ended my weekend. Both I had zero physical injury not even sore the next few days. I have a full containment seat mounted at 8 places to the cage. Also note that both rearends crashes had a lateral component so your head hits something sideways too. It's just physics. crashes are rarely 1 dimensional. My head was physically contained. In a streetcar your containment is structure designed for unhelmeted head and airbags. Streetcar containment is the best they can do and have you volunteer to wear your seatbelts. If a streetcar was made like a racecar no one would wear the gear or the harness or want a seat that tight. What would your wife say if you told her to put a helmet on? How about forget you it will mess up my hair.
01-19-2019, 06:07 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I'm getting new info by the yard out of this thread. Thanks to the OP for bringing this info out on the street. I've even looked at Kirky seats and didn't know they had a removable wing option, I thought the Sparco Ergo was the only removable wing HALO seat on the market.
Thanks,
Thanks,
01-19-2019, 06:18 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
01-19-2019, 06:25 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
T&T, we're still talking about a safe DE car though and you have to admit 7/10 in a DE isn't that bad? Stock cars these days do have better airbags, but I agree a HANS is a better solution when you're wearing a helmet. Does anyone know if those bags are really effective on the weight of a helmeted head?
01-24-2019, 09:48 AM
#40
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The libertarian in me doesn't want people telling me what to do.
So long as it doesn't impact the viability of the events I think within reason people should do what they want. At a certain point, however, there is going to be the inevitable lawsuit from the grieving spouse because they assured her/him that HPDE was safe. A huge insurance loss will mean more rules. Putting in some rules now means avoiding that issue or at least putting it off.
Still amazes me the speeds people run with only a helmet. No race suit. No harness and HANS. No race seat. Nothing.
Yes, at a certain point, you need a full race car if you want to be safe. Anything else and you are increasing your risk for a bad injury or worse.
Most people lie to themselves and say "it won't happen to me". If you drive long enough it is not "if" but "when".
01-24-2019, 10:09 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
My brain knows this would actually be a good rule.
The libertarian in me doesn't want people telling me what to do.
So long as it doesn't impact the viability of the events I think within reason people should do what they want. At a certain point, however, there is going to be the inevitable lawsuit from the grieving spouse because they assured her/him that HPDE was safe. A huge insurance loss will mean more rules. Putting in some rules now means avoiding that issue or at least putting it off.
Still amazes me the speeds people run with only a helmet. No race suit. No harness and HANS. No race seat. Nothing.
Yes, at a certain point, you need a full race car if you want to be safe. Anything else and you are increasing your risk for a bad injury or worse.
Most people lie to themselves and say "it won't happen to me". If you drive long enough it is not "if" but "when".
The libertarian in me doesn't want people telling me what to do.
So long as it doesn't impact the viability of the events I think within reason people should do what they want. At a certain point, however, there is going to be the inevitable lawsuit from the grieving spouse because they assured her/him that HPDE was safe. A huge insurance loss will mean more rules. Putting in some rules now means avoiding that issue or at least putting it off.
Still amazes me the speeds people run with only a helmet. No race suit. No harness and HANS. No race seat. Nothing.
Yes, at a certain point, you need a full race car if you want to be safe. Anything else and you are increasing your risk for a bad injury or worse.
Most people lie to themselves and say "it won't happen to me". If you drive long enough it is not "if" but "when".
Why else would someone think making full race cars mandatory for HPDE events is a good idea for motorsports?
01-24-2019, 11:37 AM
#42
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The safest rule would be to eliminate the hobby all together. Once the hobby is eliminated, wonder what happens to the sport? Best case scenario is they keep the sport just expensive enough that the top 5%ers can still work on their craft.
Why else would someone think making full race cars mandatory for HPDE events is a good idea for motorsports?
Why else would someone think making full race cars mandatory for HPDE events is a good idea for motorsports?
No one, including me, is suggesting that full race cars should be mandatory. What I am stating is that as people progress, and build up speed, they owe it to themselves to invest in safety gear. If you want to drive a GT3 around the track, even at 7/10s, without a harness and HANS, that is your business. But if and when someone gets hurt, and makes a big claim, and the insurance because impracticable, it becomes everyone's problem.
Small measures that help keep people safe are what I am advocating. Requirements for safety gear as you progress through the HPDE ranks is also what I am advocating.
If you have enough money for a GT3 you have enough money for a race seat, harness and HANS. Not saying it should be a requirement in green, but if you are in an advanced run group, you should have more than a helmet.
01-24-2019, 11:42 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
Let's be real - the people in this sport are the top 5% or higher in varying degrees.
No one, including me, is suggesting that full race cars should be mandatory. What I am stating is that as people progress, and build up speed, they owe it to themselves to invest in safety gear. If you want to drive a GT3 around the track, even at 7/10s, without a harness and HANS, that is your business. But if and when someone gets hurt, and makes a big claim, and the insurance because impracticable, it becomes everyone's problem.
Small measures that help keep people safe are what I am advocating. Requirements for safety gear as you progress through the HPDE ranks is also what I am advocating.
If you have enough money for a GT3 you have enough money for a race seat, harness and HANS. Not saying it should be a requirement in green, but if you are in an advanced run group, you should have more than a helmet.
No one, including me, is suggesting that full race cars should be mandatory. What I am stating is that as people progress, and build up speed, they owe it to themselves to invest in safety gear. If you want to drive a GT3 around the track, even at 7/10s, without a harness and HANS, that is your business. But if and when someone gets hurt, and makes a big claim, and the insurance because impracticable, it becomes everyone's problem.
Small measures that help keep people safe are what I am advocating. Requirements for safety gear as you progress through the HPDE ranks is also what I am advocating.
If you have enough money for a GT3 you have enough money for a race seat, harness and HANS. Not saying it should be a requirement in green, but if you are in an advanced run group, you should have more than a helmet.
Guilt shaming people for not being able to or having the desire to trailer race cars to an HPDE event is hilarious.
01-24-2019, 12:10 PM
#44
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I dont know what you are referring to, but I never said you shouldn't invest in a harness and a HANS, roll bar or half cage, but taking things to an extreme by saying a FULL CAGE should be required? Basically saying street cars (even well prepared) are too dangerous for HPDE driving is what I find rediculous.
Guilt shaming people for not being able to or having the desire to trailer race cars to an HPDE event is hilarious.
Guilt shaming people for not being able to or having the desire to trailer race cars to an HPDE event is hilarious.
I also never said a full cage should be required. I'm just saying that a full cage is the safest. Two different things.
We all have a mutual interest in keeping everyone safe for a multitude of reasons not the least of which is that it sucks when people get hurt or die on track. That goal has to be offset somewhat by the fact that we can't make the barrier to entry for this sport so high that it keeps people out. There needs to be new blood coming in to keep the numbers up.
A smart middle ground is what I am in favor of.
01-24-2019, 03:34 PM
#45
Drifting
For me it's a fixed back race seat (SPG XL), 6 pt harness (Schroth), HANS Device (Schroth Flex), Half cage (OEM Clubsport). I also did basic maintenance things like make sure my coolant lines were pinned, brake fluid is fresh, bolts are torqued and car was in good mechanical condition overall