Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

2007 987.1 Race Car Update to 987.2 DFI/PDK

 
Old 01-09-2019, 07:22 PM
  #16  
mehoff
User
 
mehoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 256
Default

Coward!!

Super cool build though; I hope you beat up on the factory cars. I don't know the differences (if any) between a street and CS PDK, but I do have to begrudgingly admit that the CS PDK is a thing of absolute beauty. I'll never drive it because I like my big boy pants (even if it means middle of the pack), but still a crazy piece of engineering.
mehoff is offline  
Old 01-09-2019, 07:38 PM
  #17  
Krokodil
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Krokodil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 665
Default

Originally Posted by mehoff View Post
Coward!!

Super cool build though; I hope you beat up on the factory cars. I don't know the differences (if any) between a street and CS PDK, but I do have to begrudgingly admit that the CS PDK is a thing of absolute beauty. I'll never drive it because I like my big boy pants (even if it means middle of the pack), but still a crazy piece of engineering.


Ha, at my size all of my pants are big boy pants. With the shift to the DFI engine I just couldn't pass up the chance to pick up 0.1 second per up shift shift and the ability to change gear mid-corner without destabilizing the car. I prefer the podium to mid pack, but hey if you are used to it then ... ;-)

The difference between the current Clubsport PDK and the 2011 Cayman S PDK is the final drive - CS is 3.72 and the S is 3.25

Cheers,

Last edited by Krokodil; 01-09-2019 at 08:07 PM.
Krokodil is offline  
Old 01-09-2019, 08:35 PM
  #18  
mehoff
User
 
mehoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 256
Default

Originally Posted by Krokodil View Post
I prefer the podium to mid pack, but hey if you are used to it then ... ;-)
Solid burn!
mehoff is offline  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:07 PM
  #19  
Krokodil
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Krokodil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 665
Default

First test went well. All systems worked as expected (including expected issues with stock ABS performance). Now need to reprogram PDK computer, complete tune on engine, fab new rear suspension bracing (PDK prohibits standard cross-brace), and modify diffuser to clear PDK.

Next testing report after first race weekend in early February.

Cheers,
Krokodil is offline  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:09 PM
  #20  
jrgordonsenior
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
jrgordonsenior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vacuuming Cal Speedway
Posts: 7,294
Default

Originally Posted by Krokodil View Post
The difference between the current Clubsport PDK and the 2011 Cayman S PDK is the final drive - CS is 3.72 and the S is 3.25
Did your sourced PDK have the lower ratio in their Guard diff?....
I watched him run Saturday at Streets. Same old results, TTOD.....
jrgordonsenior is offline  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:47 PM
  #21  
Krokodil
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Krokodil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 665
Default

Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior View Post
Did your sourced PDK have the lower ratio in their Guard diff?....
I watched him run Saturday at Streets. Same old results, TTOD.....
JR, No, it is the stock 3.25. Will need to look into options.

Thanks for the complement. There are 2-3 more seconds in the car with the final tune and new tires.

Cheers,
Krokodil is offline  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:50 PM
  #22  
jrgordonsenior
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
jrgordonsenior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vacuuming Cal Speedway
Posts: 7,294
Default

Originally Posted by Krokodil View Post


JR, No, it is the stock 3.25. Will need to look into options.

Thanks for the complement. There are 2-3 more seconds in the car with the final tune and new tires.

Cheers,
Scary....
jrgordonsenior is offline  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:34 PM
  #23  
Krokodil
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Krokodil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 665
Default

We ran the first race with the updated car this past weekend at Willow Springs. Overall it was a good weekend, Saturday in the wet and Sunday in the dry. The improved PDK programming was helpful, but full system (ABS, ECU, etc) still requires a bit more work. Sunday qualifying was in the dry and we were probably 0.5-.8 second off pace, but it wasn't bad for a first outing. Attached is video of the wet qualifying from Saturday and a photo of the car sitting prior to Sunday qualifying:


Attached Files
File Type: mov
IMG_3457.mov (2.39 MB, 63 views)
File Type: mov
IMG_3460.mov (3.31 MB, 47 views)
Krokodil is offline  
Old 03-05-2019, 09:53 AM
  #24  
Krokodil
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Krokodil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 665
Default

The car is running well, but we still have a bug or two to work out with the ABS. We were told that the new FVD PDK programming would allow us to run the car in sport or sport plus without the yaw sensor to improve stock ABS performance, but this was not the case. The programming did improve shifting, but did nothing to help our primary issue. So, until FVD or another vendor can get this worked out we are stuck needing to leave the yaw sensor on and the stock ABS in the car to run the PDK in Sport Plus. This is a significant step down in braking performance from the Teves Motorsports system we ran previously. Alternately, a local shop has figured out how to connect a Bosch M5 Motorsports unit into the PDK using a Motec dash. So, this may be the route we need to take, but I am not looking forward to the bill.

We are racing the car this weekend at Buttonwillow after a few minor improvements, unfortunately none that will help the braking. Our last outing was at Willow Springs in a mix of rain and dry. Other than the braking issues the car ran flawless and and is already approaching previous performance limits.

Last edited by Krokodil; 03-05-2019 at 10:20 AM.
Krokodil is offline  
Old 03-05-2019, 02:32 PM
  #25  
Bman
User
 
Bman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 198
Default

Originally Posted by Krokodil View Post
. Alternately, a local shop has figured out how to connect a Bosch M5 Motorsports unit into the PDK using a Motec dash. So, this may be the route we need to take, but I am not looking forward to the bill..
Good luck with this!

Thanks to your help with dual M/C calculations, the braking on our manual Cayman w/M5 has improved significantly. Working on a 997.2 PDK project now so this has my interest.
Bman is offline  
Old 03-05-2019, 03:01 PM
  #26  
Frank 993 C4S
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
Frank 993 C4S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NY Tri-State
Posts: 6,636
Default

Thanks for the updates. What an awesome project.
Frank 993 C4S is offline  
Old 03-08-2019, 08:17 AM
  #27  
fatbillybob
User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,605
Default

Can you elaborate on braking problem and braking goals? Doesn't standard abs just sense wheel slip and just work accordingly? What actually can a bosch motorsports abs do?
fatbillybob is offline  
Old 03-08-2019, 11:37 AM
  #28  
Krokodil
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Krokodil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 665
Default

Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
Can you elaborate on braking problem and braking goals? Doesn't standard abs just sense wheel slip and just work accordingly? What actually can a bosch motorsports abs do?
With the yaw sensor active and PSM on the car goes to ice pedal very easily under heavy braking (slicks, relatively stiff, dual masters). With PSM off braking is much improved, but still enters ABS too quickly and can go to ice pedal if braking is to abrupt. With PSM off and the yaw sensor switched off (preferred configuration) the braking is very good, but still far short of the previous Teves motorsports system (MK60E5). Unfortunately the PDK computer programming requires the yaw sensor to be on to operate in Sport or Sport Plus. With Sport Plus the car shifts far too slowly.

Motorsports ABS systems, either the Bosch or Teves, are programmed for race car dynamics (slicks, yaw, etc), appear to process faster (do not know whether this is true or it is only different programming), and intervene much more invisibly. Additionally they have adjustable sensitivity that allow the system to be set for conditions (wet/dry, stickers/worn tires, etc.). Others with more knowledge can explain further.

Someone on another forum indicated that we may be able to run the 997.2 GT3 ABS pump, but a reputable shop owner previously told me that the computers wont take to each other (have not personally tested). Thoughts?

Cheers,
Krokodil is offline  
Old 03-08-2019, 01:55 PM
  #29  
Difool
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Difool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 339
Default

If you haven’t already, have your shop change the configuration setting for ceramic brakes in the ABS settings (in PIWIS). That will lessen the ABS algorithms that cause ice mode. That probably won’t be enough of a difference to be OK for you but it does seem to help a bit.

You can also try to roll into brake a bit more gently than you would and that will help keep the street-tuned ABS from being confused by racecar performance.
Difool is offline  
Old 03-09-2019, 09:18 AM
  #30  
Krokodil
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Krokodil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 665
Default

Originally Posted by Difool View Post
If you haven’t already, have your shop change the configuration setting for ceramic brakes in the ABS settings (in PIWIS). That will lessen the ABS algorithms that cause ice mode. That probably won’t be enough of a difference to be OK for you but it does seem to help a bit.

You can also try to roll into brake a bit more gently than you would and that will help keep the street-tuned ABS from being confused by racecar performance.
Thank you. Yes, we switched to PCCB mode and it did help a bit. Also working on braking style.
Krokodil is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: