Porsche Air-Cooled Cup USA Series
#241
I’m at 2800lbs with me in it and 200lbs ballast. No fiberglass/cf parts. So 2600 with me in it. I can prob get another 20-30lbs with lighter wheels, remove door cards, and some other minor stuff. Doable.
#242
Ok, here it is.
911CUP - 911 cars from stock- D, E, F & G
1) no changes from any existing stock letter class rules except weight.
2) Hoosier tire contingency awards for those running R7.
weight changes from existing rules:
D - minus 200
E - minus 100
F - minus 50
G - no change
We have polled numerous people and found that for E taking out 100 is easy. But for D taking 200 may be difficult but certainly possible. If the D cars are having trouble we may loosen the rules on ways to get rid of weight cheaply/easily.
Also, 200 may not be enough for D and if we find that it needs to be more than 200 then we look to the D guys and gals to help find the right number as well as suggest cheap/easy ways to reduce weight (fiberglass hoods, fenders, etc.??? I'm not the expert here). The biggest delta in times seems to be the D to E lap times so rules may have to change for D to get lighter. Alternatively, for about $10k a D can become an E by changing pistons and the fuel distributor thingy, thus becoming a Euro SC instead of American SC. But we are trying to include D cheaply and it's the hardest of the bunch. It's either that or drop D altogether. Would rather include it than drop D.
FWIW, dropping weight has little to no effect on the car setup. I know because we setup my car without me in it (almost 200 pounds) and then checked it with me in it and nothing changed on the laser dyno.
Trying to get this new class up and done before season starts at Sebring...
911CUP - 911 cars from stock- D, E, F & G
1) no changes from any existing stock letter class rules except weight.
2) Hoosier tire contingency awards for those running R7.
weight changes from existing rules:
D - minus 200
E - minus 100
F - minus 50
G - no change
We have polled numerous people and found that for E taking out 100 is easy. But for D taking 200 may be difficult but certainly possible. If the D cars are having trouble we may loosen the rules on ways to get rid of weight cheaply/easily.
Also, 200 may not be enough for D and if we find that it needs to be more than 200 then we look to the D guys and gals to help find the right number as well as suggest cheap/easy ways to reduce weight (fiberglass hoods, fenders, etc.??? I'm not the expert here). The biggest delta in times seems to be the D to E lap times so rules may have to change for D to get lighter. Alternatively, for about $10k a D can become an E by changing pistons and the fuel distributor thingy, thus becoming a Euro SC instead of American SC. But we are trying to include D cheaply and it's the hardest of the bunch. It's either that or drop D altogether. Would rather include it than drop D.
FWIW, dropping weight has little to no effect on the car setup. I know because we setup my car without me in it (almost 200 pounds) and then checked it with me in it and nothing changed on the laser dyno.
Trying to get this new class up and done before season starts at Sebring...
Here's an idea, 911 only, to get big group of 911 together, aka 911CUP:
D modifies engine to become E.
E gets minus 200#.
964 F drops 270# to become 964 G.
G stays same.
Simple, easy.
This is hardest on D but D is almost gone anyway. And lots of E's used to be D's already.
D to E engine modification is pistons and fuel thingy, about $10k to $11k.
D modifies engine to become E.
E gets minus 200#.
964 F drops 270# to become 964 G.
G stays same.
Simple, easy.
This is hardest on D but D is almost gone anyway. And lots of E's used to be D's already.
D to E engine modification is pistons and fuel thingy, about $10k to $11k.
That said, IMO I think it might be more realistic to try to get D, E and older F into 1 class and 964s and 993s into 1 class which mostly is F dropping weight and maybe allowing a few prep mods for H cars to join like brakes and r&p.
#243
Could you give D cars two options to bring them in?
1. Modify engine as noted above
2. Allow more aggressive weight-loss like fully gutted doors (i.e. skins) or even fiberglass (with appropriate cage mods of course), replace glass with lexan, etc? You could get another 100-150 lbs out of a car doing just those things.
1. Modify engine as noted above
2. Allow more aggressive weight-loss like fully gutted doors (i.e. skins) or even fiberglass (with appropriate cage mods of course), replace glass with lexan, etc? You could get another 100-150 lbs out of a car doing just those things.
#244
Martinson has 185 of ballast in his 3.0L euro E.
I have over 200 in my 3.2L E.
Maybe 175 is the right number as not sure where else Martison take off weight as he has no side windows or door cards and his interior is stripped.
I have over 200 in my 3.2L E.
Maybe 175 is the right number as not sure where else Martison take off weight as he has no side windows or door cards and his interior is stripped.
#246
Now this thread is cooking. Enjoying the discussion even though I'm in SPB and have no dog in the race. Decreasing weight across the board will also address most of the concerns about mechanical stress and running costs.
#249
#250
If I remember correctly, it's more than just new Pistons and a "fuel thingy". Have to run it by Walt (or someone else in the know) but to be legal you need euro pistons, a Euro fuel distributor, euro fuel lines, euro injectors, a euro distributor, etc. Less involved than creating a 3.2 Carrera out of an SC (which Sean and I did) but still pretty involved. Maybe open the window to modified cams, timing, and injectors and a 3.0 can get up to 200-210 WHP and at a lower weight it may just work..
West
#251
At the risk of reopening the E vs 911 Cup war, this makes sense for an E car because it has to be made to a Euro Spec. But it the point were to just get another 25 HP out of D cars, even if that meant they aren't now a clone of a factory car, is there a cheaper way to do it? Actually this brings up another question - 25 HP is the factory difference. Is the real world difference really about 25?
West
West
Last edited by Gary R.; 01-26-2019 at 10:52 AM.
#252
46 pounds * p/w ratio of 15 lbs/HP. The E car is theoretically 13.25/HP.
West
Last edited by Weston Dillard; 01-25-2019 at 08:00 PM. Reason: Add math
#253
Remember this would be a new class so modifications do not necessarily need to follow PCA stock class rules. You cold be creative with D cars to make them competitive. That is until the D car is the car to beat then everyone will be crying.
#254
Lol.. there was a time when some D cars beat 95% of all E cars, but then the E owners creativity rose to the occasion..
Last edited by Gary R.; 01-26-2019 at 10:51 AM.
#255