Finally, a PCA National Instructor, How Was Your Experience?
 

This is a huge check off my bucket list. Instructing has always been a huge passion of mine, starting in Philly Region SCCA’s AutoX program and then working with friends, colleagues, and clients at private track days over the years. When I joined the PCA, passing their instructor training program was a major priority and I finally gained the opportunity after spending quite some time with Suncoast Region at Sebring. The weekend of 11/16-11/18 I flew back down to Florida and went through Suncoast’s instructor training program. It was a two day program, very stringent and superbly run by experienced and quality mentors. My primary mentor Frank Chaney happened to be the latest inductee into Suncoast PCA’s DE Hall of Fame (congrats Frank!), and it was an invaluable and rare opportunity to work with one of the best in the program. I am happy to say I passed with flying colors, to the point I was given my first official student the very next day. It was without a doubt one of the most rewarding weekends I have ever had, and I am thrilled to join the ranks of PCA Instructors and start giving back to the Porsche community I’ve come to love and value so much.

A Huge Thank You! to my friends in the Suncoast PCA and the team at AutoQuest MotorSports who were crucial towards me attaining this goal and fostering me along the way : )

Oh and cherry on top, I beat my PR by over 2.5 seconds that weekend with some tweaks to the car, 2:26.06. Video of some relatively clean laps below.

Some topics I'm curious of and would like to open up for a chat....

Where, When, and Why did you guys get your instructor training?
How was your experience doing it?
Have you enjoyed instructing with PCA over the years?
Has anything changed good or bad since when you started instructing to present day?
How has it been instructing on a National level between multiple regions?

- John Gaydos

Congrats.

The real student from hell is a lot worse than the fake ones in ITS.

Fortunately most students by far aren't that and instructing opens up a new world and makes you a better driver as well. I enjoy it enough that I'll instruct when I don't have a car - something I never understood as a student.

-Mike

Agree with all of this.

The problem with the fake student from hell is that you know that the guy is just acting and there isn't real, visceral fear. When the real student from hell shows up, you'll know it.

Congratulations! Wellcome to the club!

Best,

Never been a PCA instructor. I'm interested and they've pursued me, but the dates are always in conflict with my military duty. Oh well. I am an instructor for NASA but last season I never got a chance to run with them.

Congrats on your accomplishment!

Raced SCCA back in the day (70s) and was Assistant Chief Instructor for Detroit Region SCCA Race School. Got out of Motorsports until I bought a Cayman in 2007 and discovered DE. Got moved to White group in my second DE. Mentioned my experience to the track chair and started instructing while in White group. Instructed for many PCA Regions without going to PCA school but did training in 2011. I find instructing very rewarding. The magic moment is when the student decides you may know what you're teaching and you decide that you trust the student. I would say 90% of my instructing experiences were positive. My last student had never had instruction and never been to NJMP driving an antique Subaru Forester Station Wagon. By the end of the first day I had introduced threshold braking and followed up with trail braking and we were getting Point Byes from most of the cars in the group.

Congrats!
The 'solo' car pic at Sebring is great.

You're doomed. DOOMED!

:D Congrats!

You would hope so, but I had the perfect storm some 15 years ago. My checkout instructor's car was not running ( I think this was planned). He ended up using mine and purposely forgot to brake knowing even a pro racer could not make turn in. We ended up on an escape road after I shouted and gave directions to abort. I asked him afterwards would he have tried to make the corner and his answer was "yes".. Congrats on the next phase of your journey. You will learn and develop as a driver along the way.

Congratulations!

I've enjoyed my time a National Instructor for 2 years after tracking for 10 years. I did it 1st for the major price break but it grew into seeing how the student "gets it". Had one student who was 74 yrs old. On track at one point he was driving all over the place. Felt like he was somewhere else but not on track. I asked him if he was ok and he said "I just forgot where I was"! At that point I clapped my hands as a visual to wake him up. After that he got on it.

I commend everybody that feels comfortable sitting in the right seat of somebody they only met that day - sound mighty scary to me. John - congratulations and thank you for your commitment to bring new players into this sport and make them better drivers!

Welcome to the looney bin. :thumbup:

+1 in general but some regions have banded together and established a common criteria

The Best Advice
 

This is the best advice. ^^^^^^
I've been right seat for three barrier impacts with students this year, and in every case I recall thinking, "I need to bring him in next lap for a talk." In each case, I waited too long. As instructors, we are taught to make sure the student has a good time. But, in fact, our most important task is to make sure no one gets hurt. There are organizations out there that won't back an instructor who pulls a recalcitrant student off the track. Those are organizations you don't want to teach for.

Congratulations - it is a big accomplishment. CVR gives out a red instructor hat and I walked a little taller for a few track days when I first got mine.

This.

I was handed my student card at the beginning of the day and was warned "the last instructor said he had his hands full so be careful with this guy." I walked up to the student and when I saw him I realized I was the last instructor who wrote that comment!

I've found my instructing experience very rewarding especially when you get that one student where it all clicks and you know you really helped them.

Congrats John... The certificates are a nice touch!

The certificates are a nice touch![/QUOTE]

I agree, a really nice touch
I never got one in UCR

Thank you for your time and commitment to the PCA DE Program
Pete

Congrats!
I've been doing it for about 7 years and find it very gratifying.
They say to be a better driver you need seat time and to listen to others.
The same is for instructing, only it's the other seat.
Enjoy!

Congratulations
Coming from the other point of view.
The Left Seat.
I am progressing through the instructed run groups with PCA, now in yellow.
Some of my fellow yellow group drivers were signed off to go Solo Yellow.
While I think I learn something from every lap with an instructor next to me, I think I am much more comfortable, with an instructor for now
The last few DEs, the sessions toward the end of the weekend. My instructors were more observing what I had been taught over the weekend, and wanting verbal play by play from me as I progressed with my newly absorbed skills.
As a student, I want to thank my past instructors and all the other instructors out there, who have gone through the training to make it safe for me and others to learn how to enjoy our Porsches.

+1

I almost included this in my first response: my biggest regret in how I handled my student from hell is I was too nice to him. I allowed some things before I dropped the hammer - I should have dropped the hammer sooner and harder. This lesson has already been applied as things can get out of hand quickly with the "wrong" student.

I'm already pretty good about regulating a student's speed. Ain't no way in hell I'm letting them go "flat out" unless I'm comfortable. The way to do this without ruining the fun is to verbalize why I'm doing it and what I'm looking for in order to let up on the leash.

-Mike

Congrats- You learn from both seats .

Congratulations, John!

^^^Words to live by.

OP, Congrats. (I wish I could say my personal experience with Suncoast was as positive as yours, but that's beside the point.)

I've been extremely fortunate to be mentored in my instructing career by many of the greatest instructors I encountered when I was early on.

These friends helped me set the standards, wrote out chapters on instrcting, sent me check sheets and so on.
After my first few events instructing, they debriefed with me in great detail. Through their help Ive steadily gained in skill over my instructing tenure since 2016.
My mentors include the above poster needmoregarage, PLNewman, and at least 3 others in my PCA circle of friends.
I would encourage any new instructor to establish such mentoring relationships.

One thing I'll add: Becoming an instructor does not mean we stop learning.
In fact, instructing is a skill unto itself and has a learning curve. It takes time to cultivate these skills.

I started out by asking to work with complete novices and worked my way up to MSF Level 2 certification and now feel comfortable working with intermediate to advanced drivers.

The strongest instructors know how critically important it is to build a relationship with their students, to be fair, and to gain their trust. Same goes for the organizers they work with.

This way, when you have to make that rare tough call, you have a solid foundation from which to do so and your word carries weight.

^^^Quite so.
On one occasion I had to find my student another instructor because she didn't trust me or accept instruction.

The one time my student (not the one I reassigned) hit a tirewall, just seconds before that remember thinking "He's driving over his skill." The impact was on the passenger side and it was a 40 year old 911SC with original factory 3 point belts.

That one time was enough for me to purchase a Simpson Hybrid S.

I had a new experience last weekend. On of my first students from years ago, who was a novice at the time, was in the instructor's meeting Saturday morning. It was his first weekend instructing. Felt good, that whole circle of life thingy.

-Mike

I'm about a year ahead of you. joined the instructor ranks last Fall. Not much of a ceremony, more like, "Okay, you're an instructor now. As rookie instructor, you're responsible for brining beer. Don't forget!" LOL!

My very first student was a challenge. Had something to prove to Daddy. Would not slow down in order to focus on the line. Then finally during a black flag, on the way in, I told him to still work on the line. With the slower speed he finally nailed it. Next session, he was crying when he started getting it right - I think some of the Daddy issues were getting resolved! Yikes!

I've had a couple other challenging students that just couldn't seem to "get it" but also had a couple that did! A few in between. Had a student at VIR that took 5+ sessions to start getting the line down! Last lap of his last session, he finally put a decent lap together. Rode with my buddy's wife for parade laps and she put together a great lap by lap #3! My buddy was smart enough not to ride and tell her how to drive! Oh my, I wish I could have had my buddy's wife as my student for the weekend. SO much more potential... and a lot cuter! :icon501:

Instructing can be challenging and rewarding. There are two KEY things I've learned since I started instructing (many other one too, but...):
#1. I (the instructor) is in control! If the student is not listening, we're going into the pits... RIGHT NOW!
#2. That little voice inside your head, listen to it. Don't keep it inside. It's there to keep you alive.

Congrats John. I was at the 3 day instructor weekend (my 3rd year) but didn't sign up for the instructor class. I do have my Motor Sport Safety Academy certification and am certified with Chin at Sebring. It would be nice if PCA in general and PCA Suncoast specifically would recognize other certifications than their own but that's the way it is. Say Hi to Amy and Gavin when you see them

Rich Barbieri

That's funny:roflmao:

Good One
 

I think it's the stories like this which make this fun. As said above, it is all about fun and safety. Novice drivers do not know how lucky they are to have instructors like those found here.

Well this certainly took off a lot more than I expected, now I don't have enough time to reply to everyone individually haha. Thank you all so much for your time, your stories, and your advice. This has turned into quite a little goldmine of information, from which I will take reference from for many years :cheers:

In addition to the initial post topics I presented, I'd like to add another than I ran across. New vehicle technology masking driver error, decreasing the ability of new students to learn proper driving techniques, and increasing the potential for high speed incidents. What are your thoughts?

Previously I have been of the mind that this is a serious concern, though I ran across a post (below) on a thread of mine on Planet 9 that threw a curveball into my thoughts.

"Many of us on the West coast have been watching the effect of modern PSM with interest, and there is a belief among some in PCA that a green student in a powerful modern car is inherently dangerous and we need to protect them and ourselves from certain carnage. I sit on the Zone staff and spent some time with PCA National safety chair discussing this. The reality in terms of actual incident stats is very different than this belief.

By a large margin, PCA tour incidents outnumber DE track incidents because we are on public roads, exposed to cross traffic, sharing lanes with distracted public drivers, and sometimes irrational exuberance by PCA drivers out on canyon roads with their friends. By a similarly large margin, on-track DE incidents mostly involve advanced solo drivers and instructors in well prepared cars chasing maximum performance and simply running out of talent, rather than green novices in powerful modern cars. While the number of incidents involving green drivers in powerful modern cars is not zero, it is vanishingly low when compared to advanced DE drivers or tours. In short, it is us not them. Green novice drivers as a group tend to be far more conservative on track as they have not developed the confidence or desire to drive 10/10ths. They also are highly motivated to bring their shiny new *expensive* car home in one piece.

What this tells me is that the PCA HPDE program is working and keeping novice drivers safe as they learn the limits of their car and themselves in a controlled environment, on a closed course, with safety workers in the corners, and a thorough driver safety meeting in advance. I am encouraged by this.

Since the 981/991 models, PSM technology is so good that a driver may have no idea how much the car is doing to correct their line and keep them on the track. As instructors we need to be vigilant, and continue to encourage good car control skills, high safetyawareness, and good cooperation with other drivers and track officials as technology continues to advance. If a dedicated HPDE student really wants to learn car control with no nannys, my suggestion is to leave PSM on in their modern car, but buy a track prepped 944 or 1st Gen 2.5L Boxster and spend a year running with unaltered car dynamics. After 20 track days they will be far ahead in terms of skill, with their peers in the latest GT3/GT4/Turbo."

-cajundaddy on Planet 9

That all said, my personal thoughts on the matter are that I am concerned and determined to find solution that I am confident in. I struggle to believe that new vehicle technology (hardware and software) is not severely impacting the overall driver development of our students. I'm not talking green students necessarily as unsafe with newer cars, but those that progress to the point they begin embarking on their solo driving and self-experimentation after properly learning the driving line, navigating traffic, situation awareness, etc etc that dictates them ready to bump out of the lower groups and go solo. When are we as instructors comfortable enough on a track to have a student engage a scenario where they can lose grip and have to practice recovery skills, especially at speed? This is something they will inherently experience as they push their limits and push through their plateaus of driver skill. The cars are also going to inherently reach higher speeds and provide less opportunity for recovery with newer technology. Therefore, when do students learn this and how do instructors ensure they do? Else we have intermediate and advanced drivers pushing the edges of their limits with no real experience on recovery from significant and sudden loss of grip. Prime examples would be at 6:10 and 6:47 in the video I initially posted. Do I know what I did to cause that to happen? Yes. Do I know what to work on and prevent it from happening next time? Yes. Do I trust myself to repeat a scenario like that and have a similar recovery? Yes. Can I trust someone else to have that same recovery that has everything else down near perfect, but has never or rarely experienced it before?...That right there is something I aim to work on figuring out as an instructor, as once we are out of the car we can only do so much to control how far people will push themselves at a DE event instead of going to wheel to wheel competition with proper safety equipment. I've been recommending autox for years without the nannies on as a great low speed/low risk experimentation on vehicle control, but I think I am going to start pushing skid pad events (LOVE the kick plate) and perhaps drift school to students to compliment high speed DE events.

I don't have a time to write a long response, but you use a computer everyday and do you know how to program it like someone from from 1980 would? No, you use the tool that was presented to you to the best of your ability. The new cars do have a lot of technology, but we can either fight it and lose, or embrace it and learn how to use it to improve our instruction. ABS? It's a great tool to teach students to learn about threshold braking (no more flat spotted tires) and trail braking (if it starts ABS on entry...). Same for PSM. It doesn't have to be a failure of the car, but rather can be a way to let your student know what is going on and improve their driving.

Time marches on. We can deal with this technology or fight it. I think their is a lot to learn from it and we just have to figure out the best ways to utilize it in our instruction.

Hear, hear!

I view a significant ABS trip as an indication of driver error - even in the wet. A very slight bit of ABS in a hard brake zone confirms the driver is at the threshold braking point. ABS is also very good to have for that off into wet grass.

I view modern PSM the same way - a PSM trip is an indication of driver error. The other thing PSM compensates for is the increased power and capability of these cars. Others have commented about safety with the increased power and performance of newer cars. Just this last weekend, I first started feeling that feeling too, and frankly the presence of advanced PSM and modern safety systems made me feel better about it. IOW, I'd rather have PSM in a high powered modern car than not simply for the net it provides.

No competent instructor is going to let a student drive around the track with PSM saving the day every time. PSM and ABS, used properly, are handy for telling when the driver went "outside the lines" without the expense and risk of a mishap.

-Mike

I'd go even further. I expect students to make mistakes and be able to correct them. Slide a little, know what to do when they enter a corner too fast, and more. Having the ABS kick in is no different than a student locking a wheel a little bit. PSM is not different than the student sliding a little. If the student recognizes what happened and the situation says they weren't out of control, it's not a problem. If they are that student that doesn't realize what happened and continues with the same inputs/behavior, then their is a problem.

Matt and Mike very well said on all accounts, I like the mindset you both have in using the new technology as a new asset that we can learn to fully utilize to our advantage. At what point (if ever) would you two consider recommending a student to turn the nannies off? I don't run them in my car ever, but find myself hesitant to recommend a student to do the same in the event it saves them and their car.

Matt...what a pleasant surprise to have you chiming in. Just this morning on my way to work I was catching up on Ross Bentley's Speed Secrets podcast, and was listening to you and Ross chat about track notes and data acquisition. I jump on my computer this morning and look who it is! lol.

I really like your conversation about using data acquisition to confirm what you feel in the car. Prime example was you feeling that bump at Watkins Glen and seeing it in the data. I feel it is a superb tool to have a student be able to recognize what happened on track (even if he/she is unsure) and get confirmation of the scenario to review via data and work on improving it in the future. The same weekend I was at Sebring I threw a friend's Aim Solo 2 in my car for the first time, and although I still haven't pulled the data from it I am very excited to explore that and use it as a baseline. At some point in the near future I'll be giving you a call to further that discussion and get a proper setup for my car that I can also use to throw in a student's vehicle if need be.

I think instructing has changed a lot over the years. Just prior to me starting driving, instructors were the guys who had been doing DE for the longest (it was obvious that someone with race experience was an instructor!). It started getting more formal in the regions in the late 90s and then when NCR (Ellen Beck w/ my input) started the logbooks that were adopted by many regions in the early 2000s things took off. With the advent of the PCA National program around the same time, it really formalized the training we give instructors and helping them to be able to teach. Guys like Ross take it even further and really do a great job of "teaching the teacher."

I think the area where a lot of groups are behind right now is in using the technology in old cars. Just like when the 911 came out, people relented that Porsche stopped making cars in 1965 (hmmmm......). Then when they went long wheelbase, then the 964, then the 993, the ugly duckling 996, 997, 991.... When ABS was introduced it was the downfall of drivers! PSM - no one will know how to control a car! PDK - how will we heal/toe? Time marches on!

I'm not the guy as I don't have one of the new cars and I'm not the most up to date on all the technology in them, but we have folks in our region who teach at PDS. They are well schooled in all the technology and acronyms in the cars and do a great job of sharing that info with the region. We as instructors have to continue our learning to be able to utilize these "tools" the car provides us, not as a way to stop instructing proper skills, but as a safety net and possible performance advantage for the driver.

Sorry for the long post. This is something I've thought about a lot and I know I'm probably not in the mainstream on my thoughts, but why not put it out there.

I would just like to clarify that tour incidents do not out number DE track incidents, " By a large margin". The perception of driving on the street with the general public being more dangerous is what causes this assumption. I do agree with many of the incidents do occur in the advanced run groups. We all know intermediate and advanced drivers are most prone to acquiring bad habits or having an incident which is due to the lack of instruction. Some programs put instructors in the car with those drivers for a session, but the best thing those drivers can do is always ask for an instructor for at least one session an event.

I agree with Matt and others that we have to adapt our driving style to the new technology and understand when we messed up and car saved us, and learn form that. That is where data is invaluable.

Aaron

Since he OP originally asked about experiences with the national instructors school, I will relate mine. I did it in Jan of 08 at Roebling Road. I'm not sure how I even got in since I had never instructed before that but I did have nine years of DE experience with PCA and others groups and previous racing experience albeit two decades prior to that time. I also had experience as a ski instructor and a ski racing coach years ago so I guess someone thought I might have an aptitude for instructing.
As I recall, the instructor school was on a Friday with a DE to follow. Pete did a great job presenting the PCA DE philosophy and what was expected of instructors and then it was off to the cars for our first exercise. They were a little short on instructors to act as students so one of the other candidates who was already an instructor for the region got "promoted" to the student role. I still feel bad that he didn't get the experience of having an antagonist in the car. Turned out he was a Psychiatrist and he was very good in the role of clueless green student. He tried everything he could to overwhelm me and it was a great exercise. I think there were a couple more classroom / track sessions and then a checkout ride with the CI playing the role of student. We did a couple of laps and he told me to pull in. I was a little worried that I didn't do well be he said I did great and it was a good thing because he had a student for me the next day. Oookay, here we go.
My first student was a very large fellow in his daughter's stock Boxster and 0/0 experience. That and the fact that I knew Boxsters well gave me some confidence. 'At least he won't know what I don't know...' He was actually the perfect first student. He started out tentatively and got increasingly more confident and consistent with every session. By the end of the weekend we passed a couple of Gt3s. :) He followed direction well and I swear I could actually see the light bulb go off in his head. I was hooked, almost instant gratification. Too bad it's not always like that but happens often enough. On the last day they were allowing ride-a-longs for friends and family and my student asked me to take his daughter out in my car. This was my first time at RRR but it's a pretty easy track to learn and by the last day I was hanging it out pretty well and having a blast driving so I considered whether it was wise to tempt fate and take a pretty young girl out for a ride at the end of a so far perfect weekend. I tried to beg off but I could tell she really wanted to go so I relented. I had to keep reminding myself to dial it back but I could tell she was having fun. We pulled in at the end of the session and as soon as she got out she bummed a cigarette from her dad. "That's the first one she's had in a month" her dad said. "You must have been good". Maybe I didn't dial it back enough.
It's still one of my favorite track weekends. The other thing I remember about it was the freezing rain we had Saturday night. I warmed up again during the day but the first run in the morning, going down the straight I had huge sheets of ice coming at me from the whale tails in front of me. I still enjoy instructing but I don't get to do many DEs these days since it's tough enough to get the time for five race weekends but In a couple of years when my kids are both out of the house I will do more.

2008
 

How about that we were in the same class. I recall Tremper telling us about PCA Club Racing and how his team Above the Crease Racing got its name!

Alex H.Bell II 200801042 First Settlers

LOL. Then I went on to buy Tim's car and raced it with that banner for the first couple years.

I think I might be able to guess what the "Crease" is referencing

This old thread might be of interest to new instructors
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...me-a-bone.html


For me, the reward of teaching something I love, to others has been very rewarding.

Specifically refers to the front page when you fold it in half but that works too. In multi-class racing, where you end up on the sheet depends a lot on groupings but it's always good to be above the crease.:)

Thank you!:cheers:

Congrats to the OP for admittance into that hollowed clique, the PCA instructor core. Yes, that comment is dripping with sarcasm and realize that this post is going to ruffle some feathers. I am always bemused at the amount of horror stories throughout this forum about bad students with no equal time for the inverse. Speaking from strictly a left seat guy, yes, I understand that safety is and must be the most and the second and third most important thing(s). But my advice is, for cryin' out loud, please never forget that the student is there to have fun as well. Last time out with a group that has the letters c, a and p in its name, I uttered a "goddamnit" to myself for having missed an apex. I was promptly rewarded for having acknowledged my own mistake with a stern "please watch your language sir!!" from the guy in the right seat. I'm not making that up. I should have stuck my must out the left window, pitted, parked and explained to the guy in the right seat that nobody is going to talk to me that way and then asked for a new instructor. Unfortunately, I did not and the weekend went downhill from there. (Actually, I would think the correct euphemism would be "all uphill". ) Ruined my whole experience with the PCA and I won't likely ever return...though I doubt they give a damn. Sorry for jacking this thread.

Somehow I doubt that... Thanks for the input, it's appreciated! <dripping with sarcasm>...

I don't know why people assign a bad experience with a specific instructor to an entire organization. PCA instructors and the Chin instructors and the BMW instructors and the SCCA instructors (and group X instructors and group Y instructors and group Z instructors) are a giant overlapping Venn diagram.

It isn't PCA policy (to my knowledge) to prohibit mild swearing in the driver's seat; and PCA has no way of knowing if someone has a bad experience unless you tell them so. Posting on rennlist months later does not constitute telling PCA about it.

Just taking a guess, I assume that is because, generally, the really bad students are worse than really bad instructors, and yes, this is driven mostly by safety. Any group of people are going to have variances, and yes, I've had my share of bad instructors as well. There was that guy who was *always* late to grid, and even missed one session when I was *not* soloed. Then there was that instructor whose instruction consisted of bragging about his race car. Neither one of these chuckle heads really impacted safety.

I suspect the bad student stories tend to be a bit more interesting that bad instructor stories - but they are out there.

In my experience, most instructors care a great deal that their students have fun. Also, most instructors are common to geographic area rather than just one club. I've instructed for 3-4 groups beyond PCA and most of those people also instructed with PCA.

-Mike

Yep

No it sure does not. That's why I had discussions with the CI and ultimately a long conversation with the chapter president about the whole experience, thank you very much.

Wait. What. Let me guess. You are an instructor.

wow, one person telling you to watch your language ruined your entire experience with PCA...... you need to grow some thicker skin. Most mature adults would have simply apologized for offending someone with your language and then asked for a new instructor since you two clearly were not a good match. But, allowing that isolated moment to ruin your entire experience is on you - not the instructor - and certainly not on PCA.

I have been lucky, only one instructor that was not great. Even, then he was on time for run groups and had respect for my time on the track. He was a well respected club racer.
After the first run group debrief session, I explained I was there at a PCA HPDE at a new track with new chapter. While I really do want to learn the line, I also was there to learn how to drive my car. I did want to learn the line, but to someone who requires a right seat person, sometimes there is a lot more than learning the line, brake now, turn now, accelerate, unwind etc,.
For example other instructors have explained why the line is the line, not just learning camber of track or exact apex, but the why, and how it applied to my skill level, my car etc. Also, that there are race lines, as well as HPDE lines on the same track, they overlap at points but not always the same.
As instructors, remember how much of a thirst for driving details and feedback you had when you were still being instructed?
It is still the same for us in the left seat. If the order of run groups do facilitate a detailed review of session, come back to it when time allows. That is how we improve for the next session.
(My best instructor was 10 minutes late for a session, it didn't matter, the quality out weighted the quantity)
just my $.02

-David

Hi, return to Rennlist after being away a while. Did National Instructor training with Pete Tremper a while ago at WGI. I thoroughly enjoyed it, had a great mentor.

One thing puzzled me and my classmates. The need for timely feedback was stressed, yet at the end of the training we were given no official word and received no feedback. My mentor did see me later in the day and said congrats, but still did not seem official. I do know that a couple folks in the class were not passed, but we felt a bit at sea as to our status.

Was not 100% sure until I got email a couple weeks later. I see pics of “graduation” celebrations and I know my fellow successful candidates would have really enjoyed that.

anyone else have a similar experience?

Stability control systems aren't all the same, so they shouldn't all be lumped together. Some are highly intrusive and make driving on track a problem if they're left on. Others will only intervene when the car is way out of shape or very close to the limit, so they won't intervene during normal student driving. If a student is used to driving with stability control off and is driving decently, let them leave it off, but keep them on a tighter leash. If a student isn't used to driving with stability control off, don't ask them to turn it off, don't recommend that they turn it off, and maybe don't even allow them to turn it off if you have reservations about their driving or the track runoff. DE is a recreational activity which is rarely a path to pro racing, so there's no need to take unnecessary added risks. Best places to develop car control are safer environments like skidpad and karting.

Regarding the instructing experience, the vast majority of students have decent learning ability and are sensible, so instructing them will be rewarding, but never let your guard down. A small minority of students are crappy drivers and/or have attitude problems, and instructing them will be more like trying to control an unruly child. If an instructor often has difficult instructing experiences and/or unhappy students, the problem may be the instructor rather than the students.

I also instruct for another organization that sees all kinds of cars, including super high powered ones. Often the owners have no real driving experience and can’t wait to get out there to mash the loud pedal. Much of the day will be convincing them that to go fast, they need to go slow first. Several times I have had to direct them into pits and have a quiet talk re listening and what it takes to get around a track in the best manner. I would try to take them out in my car, with less than half the HP and demonstrate basic technique. Some get it, for some “OSB,” “Other Sports Beckon.”

So' I've been the lead instructor in that spot. Pete needed to meet with the mentors, review their responses, and grade your test scores, and by that time, most of the paddock is gone. I seek out the candidates--passing and otherwise-- the next morning, and we make a nice announcement congratulatig our newest natioinally trained instructors at the drivers' meeting.

Thanks, I understand.

We end the last mentoring session around 4:00 with a final open track session that lasts until 5:00. During that time (between 4:00 and 5:00) we are capturing, calculating, and comparing all of the scores. We force a pretty tight schedule so we can have all of this done around 5:00 and make the big announcement (along with a photo) at the happy hour that follows.

I understand the complexity. However when we did it there was no official announcement. We weren’t completely sure until we got email several weeks later.

Yeah. That sucks.

As a student that recently completed my first HPDE with the PCA, had an awesome instructor, and am absolutely hooked...

Thank you and congratulations!