Finally, a PCA National Instructor, How Was Your Experience?
12-03-2018, 05:50 PM
#31
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I'm about a year ahead of you. joined the instructor ranks last Fall. Not much of a ceremony, more like, "Okay, you're an instructor now. As rookie instructor, you're responsible for brining beer. Don't forget!" LOL!
My very first student was a challenge. Had something to prove to Daddy. Would not slow down in order to focus on the line. Then finally during a black flag, on the way in, I told him to still work on the line. With the slower speed he finally nailed it. Next session, he was crying when he started getting it right - I think some of the Daddy issues were getting resolved! Yikes!
I've had a couple other challenging students that just couldn't seem to "get it" but also had a couple that did! A few in between. Had a student at VIR that took 5+ sessions to start getting the line down! Last lap of his last session, he finally put a decent lap together. Rode with my buddy's wife for parade laps and she put together a great lap by lap #3! My buddy was smart enough not to ride and tell her how to drive! Oh my, I wish I could have had my buddy's wife as my student for the weekend. SO much more potential... and a lot cuter!
Instructing can be challenging and rewarding. There are two KEY things I've learned since I started instructing (many other one too, but...):
#1. I (the instructor) is in control! If the student is not listening, we're going into the pits... RIGHT NOW!
#2. That little voice inside your head, listen to it. Don't keep it inside. It's there to keep you alive.
My very first student was a challenge. Had something to prove to Daddy. Would not slow down in order to focus on the line. Then finally during a black flag, on the way in, I told him to still work on the line. With the slower speed he finally nailed it. Next session, he was crying when he started getting it right - I think some of the Daddy issues were getting resolved! Yikes!
I've had a couple other challenging students that just couldn't seem to "get it" but also had a couple that did! A few in between. Had a student at VIR that took 5+ sessions to start getting the line down! Last lap of his last session, he finally put a decent lap together. Rode with my buddy's wife for parade laps and she put together a great lap by lap #3! My buddy was smart enough not to ride and tell her how to drive! Oh my, I wish I could have had my buddy's wife as my student for the weekend. SO much more potential... and a lot cuter!
Instructing can be challenging and rewarding. There are two KEY things I've learned since I started instructing (many other one too, but...):
#1. I (the instructor) is in control! If the student is not listening, we're going into the pits... RIGHT NOW!
#2. That little voice inside your head, listen to it. Don't keep it inside. It's there to keep you alive.
12-03-2018, 10:22 PM
#32
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Congrats John. I was at the 3 day instructor weekend (my 3rd year) but didn't sign up for the instructor class. I do have my Motor Sport Safety Academy certification and am certified with Chin at Sebring. It would be nice if PCA in general and PCA Suncoast specifically would recognize other certifications than their own but that's the way it is. Say Hi to Amy and Gavin when you see them
Rich Barbieri
Rich Barbieri
12-04-2018, 03:15 AM
#33
Race Director
Congrats John, I became a PCA instructor when I went through the Suncoast school in 2009. I started DE in 2006. I used to run a lot with Suncoast but the last 6 years I’ve been doing mostly Chin events. I have my reasons for that.
I guess my wildest wackiest student was a guy that came in his 2005 Mercedes S500. Once I got him to take his floor matts, spare change in cup holder, doors, floor board, ashtray, wall mart change holder, lose clamped on sunvisor garage door opener, phone corners, radar detector, cell phone he laid in cup holder, baseball,hats on rear window deck, jacket on passenger seat back and his putter out of rear seat floor board....OUT OF THE CAR....we finally got on track. Between T3,4,5 I hear thunk thunk thunk in the trunk. I ask what it that? He says oh that’s my bowling ball and it always does that! He argued with me when I had him pit to remove that too. So now that the car is finally empty we go back out...on,y a few laps to get in when his brake light in dash panel lights up and see workshop light comes on. His brakes were done.
I guess my wildest wackiest student was a guy that came in his 2005 Mercedes S500. Once I got him to take his floor matts, spare change in cup holder, doors, floor board, ashtray, wall mart change holder, lose clamped on sunvisor garage door opener, phone corners, radar detector, cell phone he laid in cup holder, baseball,hats on rear window deck, jacket on passenger seat back and his putter out of rear seat floor board....OUT OF THE CAR....we finally got on track. Between T3,4,5 I hear thunk thunk thunk in the trunk. I ask what it that? He says oh that’s my bowling ball and it always does that! He argued with me when I had him pit to remove that too. So now that the car is finally empty we go back out...on,y a few laps to get in when his brake light in dash panel lights up and see workshop light comes on. His brakes were done.
12-04-2018, 12:25 PM
#34
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Congrats John, I became a PCA instructor when I went through the Suncoast school in 2009. I started DE in 2006. I used to run a lot with Suncoast but the last 6 years I’ve been doing mostly Chin events. I have my reasons for that.
I guess my wildest wackiest student was a guy that came in his 2005 Mercedes S500. Once I got him to take his floor matts, spare change in cup holder, doors, floor board, ashtray, wall mart change holder, lose clamped on sunvisor garage door opener, phone corners, radar detector, cell phone he laid in cup holder, baseball,hats on rear window deck, jacket on passenger seat back and his putter out of rear seat floor board....OUT OF THE CAR....we finally got on track. Between T3,4,5 I hear thunk thunk thunk in the trunk. I ask what it that? He says oh that’s my bowling ball and it always does that! He argued with me when I had him pit to remove that too. So now that the car is finally empty we go back out...on,y a few laps to get in when his brake light in dash panel lights up and see workshop light comes on. His brakes were done.
I guess my wildest wackiest student was a guy that came in his 2005 Mercedes S500. Once I got him to take his floor matts, spare change in cup holder, doors, floor board, ashtray, wall mart change holder, lose clamped on sunvisor garage door opener, phone corners, radar detector, cell phone he laid in cup holder, baseball,hats on rear window deck, jacket on passenger seat back and his putter out of rear seat floor board....OUT OF THE CAR....we finally got on track. Between T3,4,5 I hear thunk thunk thunk in the trunk. I ask what it that? He says oh that’s my bowling ball and it always does that! He argued with me when I had him pit to remove that too. So now that the car is finally empty we go back out...on,y a few laps to get in when his brake light in dash panel lights up and see workshop light comes on. His brakes were done.
12-04-2018, 05:31 PM
#35
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Good One
Congrats John, I became a PCA instructor when I went through the Suncoast school in 2009. I started DE in 2006. I used to run a lot with Suncoast but the last 6 years I’ve been doing mostly Chin events. I have my reasons for that.
I guess my wildest wackiest student was a guy that came in his 2005 Mercedes S500. Once I got him to take his floor matts, spare change in cup holder, doors, floor board, ashtray, wall mart change holder, lose clamped on sunvisor garage door opener, phone corners, radar detector, cell phone he laid in cup holder, baseball,hats on rear window deck, jacket on passenger seat back and his putter out of rear seat floor board....OUT OF THE CAR....we finally got on track. Between T3,4,5 I hear thunk thunk thunk in the trunk. I ask what it that? He says oh that’s my bowling ball and it always does that! He argued with me when I had him pit to remove that too. So now that the car is finally empty we go back out...on,y a few laps to get in when his brake light in dash panel lights up and see workshop light comes on. His brakes were done.
I guess my wildest wackiest student was a guy that came in his 2005 Mercedes S500. Once I got him to take his floor matts, spare change in cup holder, doors, floor board, ashtray, wall mart change holder, lose clamped on sunvisor garage door opener, phone corners, radar detector, cell phone he laid in cup holder, baseball,hats on rear window deck, jacket on passenger seat back and his putter out of rear seat floor board....OUT OF THE CAR....we finally got on track. Between T3,4,5 I hear thunk thunk thunk in the trunk. I ask what it that? He says oh that’s my bowling ball and it always does that! He argued with me when I had him pit to remove that too. So now that the car is finally empty we go back out...on,y a few laps to get in when his brake light in dash panel lights up and see workshop light comes on. His brakes were done.
12-04-2018, 06:10 PM
#36
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Well this certainly took off a lot more than I expected, now I don't have enough time to reply to everyone individually haha. Thank you all so much for your time, your stories, and your advice. This has turned into quite a little goldmine of information, from which I will take reference from for many years 
In addition to the initial post topics I presented, I'd like to add another than I ran across. New vehicle technology masking driver error, decreasing the ability of new students to learn proper driving techniques, and increasing the potential for high speed incidents. What are your thoughts?
Previously I have been of the mind that this is a serious concern, though I ran across a post (below) on a thread of mine on Planet 9 that threw a curveball into my thoughts.
"Many of us on the West coast have been watching the effect of modern PSM with interest, and there is a belief among some in PCA that a green student in a powerful modern car is inherently dangerous and we need to protect them and ourselves from certain carnage. I sit on the Zone staff and spent some time with PCA National safety chair discussing this. The reality in terms of actual incident stats is very different than this belief.
By a large margin, PCA tour incidents outnumber DE track incidents because we are on public roads, exposed to cross traffic, sharing lanes with distracted public drivers, and sometimes irrational exuberance by PCA drivers out on canyon roads with their friends. By a similarly large margin, on-track DE incidents mostly involve advanced solo drivers and instructors in well prepared cars chasing maximum performance and simply running out of talent, rather than green novices in powerful modern cars. While the number of incidents involving green drivers in powerful modern cars is not zero, it is vanishingly low when compared to advanced DE drivers or tours. In short, it is us not them. Green novice drivers as a group tend to be far more conservative on track as they have not developed the confidence or desire to drive 10/10ths. They also are highly motivated to bring their shiny new *expensive* car home in one piece.
What this tells me is that the PCA HPDE program is working and keeping novice drivers safe as they learn the limits of their car and themselves in a controlled environment, on a closed course, with safety workers in the corners, and a thorough driver safety meeting in advance. I am encouraged by this.
Since the 981/991 models, PSM technology is so good that a driver may have no idea how much the car is doing to correct their line and keep them on the track. As instructors we need to be vigilant, and continue to encourage good car control skills, high safetyawareness, and good cooperation with other drivers and track officials as technology continues to advance. If a dedicated HPDE student really wants to learn car control with no nannys, my suggestion is to leave PSM on in their modern car, but buy a track prepped 944 or 1st Gen 2.5L Boxster and spend a year running with unaltered car dynamics. After 20 track days they will be far ahead in terms of skill, with their peers in the latest GT3/GT4/Turbo."
-cajundaddy on Planet 9
That all said, my personal thoughts on the matter are that I am concerned and determined to find solution that I am confident in. I struggle to believe that new vehicle technology (hardware and software) is not severely impacting the overall driver development of our students. I'm not talking green students necessarily as unsafe with newer cars, but those that progress to the point they begin embarking on their solo driving and self-experimentation after properly learning the driving line, navigating traffic, situation awareness, etc etc that dictates them ready to bump out of the lower groups and go solo. When are we as instructors comfortable enough on a track to have a student engage a scenario where they can lose grip and have to practice recovery skills, especially at speed? This is something they will inherently experience as they push their limits and push through their plateaus of driver skill. The cars are also going to inherently reach higher speeds and provide less opportunity for recovery with newer technology. Therefore, when do students learn this and how do instructors ensure they do? Else we have intermediate and advanced drivers pushing the edges of their limits with no real experience on recovery from significant and sudden loss of grip. Prime examples would be at 6:10 and 6:47 in the video I initially posted. Do I know what I did to cause that to happen? Yes. Do I know what to work on and prevent it from happening next time? Yes. Do I trust myself to repeat a scenario like that and have a similar recovery? Yes. Can I trust someone else to have that same recovery that has everything else down near perfect, but has never or rarely experienced it before?...That right there is something I aim to work on figuring out as an instructor, as once we are out of the car we can only do so much to control how far people will push themselves at a DE event instead of going to wheel to wheel competition with proper safety equipment. I've been recommending autox for years without the nannies on as a great low speed/low risk experimentation on vehicle control, but I think I am going to start pushing skid pad events (LOVE the kick plate) and perhaps drift school to students to compliment high speed DE events.
In addition to the initial post topics I presented, I'd like to add another than I ran across. New vehicle technology masking driver error, decreasing the ability of new students to learn proper driving techniques, and increasing the potential for high speed incidents. What are your thoughts?
Previously I have been of the mind that this is a serious concern, though I ran across a post (below) on a thread of mine on Planet 9 that threw a curveball into my thoughts.
"Many of us on the West coast have been watching the effect of modern PSM with interest, and there is a belief among some in PCA that a green student in a powerful modern car is inherently dangerous and we need to protect them and ourselves from certain carnage. I sit on the Zone staff and spent some time with PCA National safety chair discussing this. The reality in terms of actual incident stats is very different than this belief.
By a large margin, PCA tour incidents outnumber DE track incidents because we are on public roads, exposed to cross traffic, sharing lanes with distracted public drivers, and sometimes irrational exuberance by PCA drivers out on canyon roads with their friends. By a similarly large margin, on-track DE incidents mostly involve advanced solo drivers and instructors in well prepared cars chasing maximum performance and simply running out of talent, rather than green novices in powerful modern cars. While the number of incidents involving green drivers in powerful modern cars is not zero, it is vanishingly low when compared to advanced DE drivers or tours. In short, it is us not them. Green novice drivers as a group tend to be far more conservative on track as they have not developed the confidence or desire to drive 10/10ths. They also are highly motivated to bring their shiny new *expensive* car home in one piece.
What this tells me is that the PCA HPDE program is working and keeping novice drivers safe as they learn the limits of their car and themselves in a controlled environment, on a closed course, with safety workers in the corners, and a thorough driver safety meeting in advance. I am encouraged by this.
Since the 981/991 models, PSM technology is so good that a driver may have no idea how much the car is doing to correct their line and keep them on the track. As instructors we need to be vigilant, and continue to encourage good car control skills, high safetyawareness, and good cooperation with other drivers and track officials as technology continues to advance. If a dedicated HPDE student really wants to learn car control with no nannys, my suggestion is to leave PSM on in their modern car, but buy a track prepped 944 or 1st Gen 2.5L Boxster and spend a year running with unaltered car dynamics. After 20 track days they will be far ahead in terms of skill, with their peers in the latest GT3/GT4/Turbo."
-cajundaddy on Planet 9
That all said, my personal thoughts on the matter are that I am concerned and determined to find solution that I am confident in. I struggle to believe that new vehicle technology (hardware and software) is not severely impacting the overall driver development of our students. I'm not talking green students necessarily as unsafe with newer cars, but those that progress to the point they begin embarking on their solo driving and self-experimentation after properly learning the driving line, navigating traffic, situation awareness, etc etc that dictates them ready to bump out of the lower groups and go solo. When are we as instructors comfortable enough on a track to have a student engage a scenario where they can lose grip and have to practice recovery skills, especially at speed? This is something they will inherently experience as they push their limits and push through their plateaus of driver skill. The cars are also going to inherently reach higher speeds and provide less opportunity for recovery with newer technology. Therefore, when do students learn this and how do instructors ensure they do? Else we have intermediate and advanced drivers pushing the edges of their limits with no real experience on recovery from significant and sudden loss of grip. Prime examples would be at 6:10 and 6:47 in the video I initially posted. Do I know what I did to cause that to happen? Yes. Do I know what to work on and prevent it from happening next time? Yes. Do I trust myself to repeat a scenario like that and have a similar recovery? Yes. Can I trust someone else to have that same recovery that has everything else down near perfect, but has never or rarely experienced it before?...That right there is something I aim to work on figuring out as an instructor, as once we are out of the car we can only do so much to control how far people will push themselves at a DE event instead of going to wheel to wheel competition with proper safety equipment. I've been recommending autox for years without the nannies on as a great low speed/low risk experimentation on vehicle control, but I think I am going to start pushing skid pad events (LOVE the kick plate) and perhaps drift school to students to compliment high speed DE events.
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Last edited by Soul Performance; 12-04-2018 at 07:17 PM.
12-04-2018, 10:50 PM
#37
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I don't have a time to write a long response, but you use a computer everyday and do you know how to program it like someone from from 1980 would? No, you use the tool that was presented to you to the best of your ability. The new cars do have a lot of technology, but we can either fight it and lose, or embrace it and learn how to use it to improve our instruction. ABS? It's a great tool to teach students to learn about threshold braking (no more flat spotted tires) and trail braking (if it starts ABS on entry...). Same for PSM. It doesn't have to be a failure of the car, but rather can be a way to let your student know what is going on and improve their driving.
Time marches on. We can deal with this technology or fight it. I think their is a lot to learn from it and we just have to figure out the best ways to utilize it in our instruction.
Time marches on. We can deal with this technology or fight it. I think their is a lot to learn from it and we just have to figure out the best ways to utilize it in our instruction.
12-04-2018, 11:32 PM
#38
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I don't have a time to write a long response, but you use a computer everyday and do you know how to program it like someone from from 1980 would? No, you use the tool that was presented to you to the best of your ability. The new cars do have a lot of technology, but we can either fight it and lose, or embrace it and learn how to use it to improve our instruction. ABS? It's a great tool to teach students to learn about threshold braking (no more flat spotted tires) and trail braking (if it starts ABS on entry...). Same for PSM. It doesn't have to be a failure of the car, but rather can be a way to let your student know what is going on and improve their driving.
Time marches on. We can deal with this technology or fight it. I think their is a lot to learn from it and we just have to figure out the best ways to utilize it in our instruction.
Time marches on. We can deal with this technology or fight it. I think their is a lot to learn from it and we just have to figure out the best ways to utilize it in our instruction.
12-05-2018, 10:07 AM
#39
I don't have a time to write a long response, but you use a computer everyday and do you know how to program it like someone from from 1980 would? No, you use the tool that was presented to you to the best of your ability. The new cars do have a lot of technology, but we can either fight it and lose, or embrace it and learn how to use it to improve our instruction. ABS? It's a great tool to teach students to learn about threshold braking (no more flat spotted tires) and trail braking (if it starts ABS on entry...). Same for PSM. It doesn't have to be a failure of the car, but rather can be a way to let your student know what is going on and improve their driving.
Time marches on. We can deal with this technology or fight it. I think their is a lot to learn from it and we just have to figure out the best ways to utilize it in our instruction.
Time marches on. We can deal with this technology or fight it. I think their is a lot to learn from it and we just have to figure out the best ways to utilize it in our instruction.
I view modern PSM the same way - a PSM trip is an indication of driver error. The other thing PSM compensates for is the increased power and capability of these cars. Others have commented about safety with the increased power and performance of newer cars. Just this last weekend, I first started feeling that feeling too, and frankly the presence of advanced PSM and modern safety systems made me feel better about it. IOW, I'd rather have PSM in a high powered modern car than not simply for the net it provides.
No competent instructor is going to let a student drive around the track with PSM saving the day every time. PSM and ABS, used properly, are handy for telling when the driver went "outside the lines" without the expense and risk of a mishap.
-Mike
12-05-2018, 10:38 AM
#40
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I view a significant ABS trip as an indication of driver error - even in the wet. A very slight bit of ABS in a hard brake zone confirms the driver is at the threshold braking point. ABS is also very good to have for that off into wet grass.
I view modern PSM the same way - a PSM trip is an indication of driver error. The other thing PSM compensates for is the increased power and capability of these cars. Others have commented about safety with the increased power and performance of newer cars. Just this last weekend, I first started feeling that feeling too, and frankly the presence of advanced PSM and modern safety systems made me feel better about it. IOW, I'd rather have PSM in a high powered modern car than not simply for the net it provides.
No competent instructor is going to let a student drive around the track with PSM saving the day every time. PSM and ABS, used properly, are handy for telling when the driver went "outside the lines" without the expense and risk of a mishap.
-Mike
I view modern PSM the same way - a PSM trip is an indication of driver error. The other thing PSM compensates for is the increased power and capability of these cars. Others have commented about safety with the increased power and performance of newer cars. Just this last weekend, I first started feeling that feeling too, and frankly the presence of advanced PSM and modern safety systems made me feel better about it. IOW, I'd rather have PSM in a high powered modern car than not simply for the net it provides.
No competent instructor is going to let a student drive around the track with PSM saving the day every time. PSM and ABS, used properly, are handy for telling when the driver went "outside the lines" without the expense and risk of a mishap.
-Mike
12-05-2018, 11:12 AM
#41
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Matt and Mike very well said on all accounts, I like the mindset you both have in using the new technology as a new asset that we can learn to fully utilize to our advantage. At what point (if ever) would you two consider recommending a student to turn the nannies off? I don't run them in my car ever, but find myself hesitant to recommend a student to do the same in the event it saves them and their car.
Matt...what a pleasant surprise to have you chiming in. Just this morning on my way to work I was catching up on Ross Bentley's Speed Secrets podcast, and was listening to you and Ross chat about track notes and data acquisition. I jump on my computer this morning and look who it is! lol.
I really like your conversation about using data acquisition to confirm what you feel in the car. Prime example was you feeling that bump at Watkins Glen and seeing it in the data. I feel it is a superb tool to have a student be able to recognize what happened on track (even if he/she is unsure) and get confirmation of the scenario to review via data and work on improving it in the future. The same weekend I was at Sebring I threw a friend's Aim Solo 2 in my car for the first time, and although I still haven't pulled the data from it I am very excited to explore that and use it as a baseline. At some point in the near future I'll be giving you a call to further that discussion and get a proper setup for my car that I can also use to throw in a student's vehicle if need be.
Matt...what a pleasant surprise to have you chiming in. Just this morning on my way to work I was catching up on Ross Bentley's Speed Secrets podcast, and was listening to you and Ross chat about track notes and data acquisition. I jump on my computer this morning and look who it is! lol.
I really like your conversation about using data acquisition to confirm what you feel in the car. Prime example was you feeling that bump at Watkins Glen and seeing it in the data. I feel it is a superb tool to have a student be able to recognize what happened on track (even if he/she is unsure) and get confirmation of the scenario to review via data and work on improving it in the future. The same weekend I was at Sebring I threw a friend's Aim Solo 2 in my car for the first time, and although I still haven't pulled the data from it I am very excited to explore that and use it as a baseline. At some point in the near future I'll be giving you a call to further that discussion and get a proper setup for my car that I can also use to throw in a student's vehicle if need be.
12-05-2018, 11:44 AM
#42
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Matt and Mike very well said on all accounts, I like the mindset you both have in using the new technology as a new asset that we can learn to fully utilize to our advantage. At what point (if ever) would you two consider recommending a student to turn the nannies off? I don't run them in my car ever, but find myself hesitant to recommend a student to do the same in the event it saves them and their car.
Matt...what a pleasant surprise to have you chiming in. Just this morning on my way to work I was catching up on Ross Bentley's Speed Secrets podcast, and was listening to you and Ross chat about track notes and data acquisition. I jump on my computer this morning and look who it is! lol.
I really like your conversation about using data acquisition to confirm what you feel in the car. Prime example was you feeling that bump at Watkins Glen and seeing it in the data. I feel it is a superb tool to have a student be able to recognize what happened on track (even if he/she is unsure) and get confirmation of the scenario to review via data and work on improving it in the future. The same weekend I was at Sebring I threw a friend's Aim Solo 2 in my car for the first time, and although I still haven't pulled the data from it I am very excited to explore that and use it as a baseline. At some point in the near future I'll be giving you a call to further that discussion and get a proper setup for my car that I can also use to throw in a student's vehicle if need be.
Matt...what a pleasant surprise to have you chiming in. Just this morning on my way to work I was catching up on Ross Bentley's Speed Secrets podcast, and was listening to you and Ross chat about track notes and data acquisition. I jump on my computer this morning and look who it is! lol.
I really like your conversation about using data acquisition to confirm what you feel in the car. Prime example was you feeling that bump at Watkins Glen and seeing it in the data. I feel it is a superb tool to have a student be able to recognize what happened on track (even if he/she is unsure) and get confirmation of the scenario to review via data and work on improving it in the future. The same weekend I was at Sebring I threw a friend's Aim Solo 2 in my car for the first time, and although I still haven't pulled the data from it I am very excited to explore that and use it as a baseline. At some point in the near future I'll be giving you a call to further that discussion and get a proper setup for my car that I can also use to throw in a student's vehicle if need be.
I think the area where a lot of groups are behind right now is in using the technology in old cars. Just like when the 911 came out, people relented that Porsche stopped making cars in 1965 (hmmmm......). Then when they went long wheelbase, then the 964, then the 993, the ugly duckling 996, 997, 991.... When ABS was introduced it was the downfall of drivers! PSM - no one will know how to control a car! PDK - how will we heal/toe? Time marches on!
I'm not the guy as I don't have one of the new cars and I'm not the most up to date on all the technology in them, but we have folks in our region who teach at PDS. They are well schooled in all the technology and acronyms in the cars and do a great job of sharing that info with the region. We as instructors have to continue our learning to be able to utilize these "tools" the car provides us, not as a way to stop instructing proper skills, but as a safety net and possible performance advantage for the driver.
Sorry for the long post. This is something I've thought about a lot and I know I'm probably not in the mainstream on my thoughts, but why not put it out there.
12-05-2018, 11:44 AM
#43
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By a large margin, PCA tour incidents outnumber DE track incidents because we are on public roads, exposed to cross traffic, sharing lanes with distracted public drivers, and sometimes irrational exuberance by PCA drivers out on canyon roads with their friends. By a similarly large margin, on-track DE incidents mostly involve advanced solo drivers and instructors in well prepared cars chasing maximum performance and simply running out of talent, rather than green novices in powerful modern cars. While the number of incidents involving green drivers in powerful modern cars is not zero, it is vanishingly low when compared to advanced DE drivers or tours. In short, it is us not them. Green novice drivers as a group tend to be far more conservative on track as they have not developed the confidence or desire to drive 10/10ths. They also are highly motivated to bring their shiny new *expensive* car home in one piece.
-cajundaddy on Planet 9
-cajundaddy on Planet 9
I agree with Matt and others that we have to adapt our driving style to the new technology and understand when we messed up and car saved us, and learn form that. That is where data is invaluable.
Aaron
12-05-2018, 01:44 PM
#44
I'm in....
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Rennlist Member
Since he OP originally asked about experiences with the national instructors school, I will relate mine. I did it in Jan of 08 at Roebling Road. I'm not sure how I even got in since I had never instructed before that but I did have nine years of DE experience with PCA and others groups and previous racing experience albeit two decades prior to that time. I also had experience as a ski instructor and a ski racing coach years ago so I guess someone thought I might have an aptitude for instructing.
As I recall, the instructor school was on a Friday with a DE to follow. Pete did a great job presenting the PCA DE philosophy and what was expected of instructors and then it was off to the cars for our first exercise. They were a little short on instructors to act as students so one of the other candidates who was already an instructor for the region got "promoted" to the student role. I still feel bad that he didn't get the experience of having an antagonist in the car. Turned out he was a Psychiatrist and he was very good in the role of clueless green student. He tried everything he could to overwhelm me and it was a great exercise. I think there were a couple more classroom / track sessions and then a checkout ride with the CI playing the role of student. We did a couple of laps and he told me to pull in. I was a little worried that I didn't do well be he said I did great and it was a good thing because he had a student for me the next day. Oookay, here we go.
My first student was a very large fellow in his daughter's stock Boxster and 0/0 experience. That and the fact that I knew Boxsters well gave me some confidence. 'At least he won't know what I don't know...' He was actually the perfect first student. He started out tentatively and got increasingly more confident and consistent with every session. By the end of the weekend we passed a couple of Gt3s.
He followed direction well and I swear I could actually see the light bulb go off in his head. I was hooked, almost instant gratification. Too bad it's not always like that but happens often enough. On the last day they were allowing ride-a-longs for friends and family and my student asked me to take his daughter out in my car. This was my first time at RRR but it's a pretty easy track to learn and by the last day I was hanging it out pretty well and having a blast driving so I considered whether it was wise to tempt fate and take a pretty young girl out for a ride at the end of a so far perfect weekend. I tried to beg off but I could tell she really wanted to go so I relented. I had to keep reminding myself to dial it back but I could tell she was having fun. We pulled in at the end of the session and as soon as she got out she bummed a cigarette from her dad. "That's the first one she's had in a month" her dad said. "You must have been good". Maybe I didn't dial it back enough.
It's still one of my favorite track weekends. The other thing I remember about it was the freezing rain we had Saturday night. I warmed up again during the day but the first run in the morning, going down the straight I had huge sheets of ice coming at me from the whale tails in front of me. I still enjoy instructing but I don't get to do many DEs these days since it's tough enough to get the time for five race weekends but In a couple of years when my kids are both out of the house I will do more.
As I recall, the instructor school was on a Friday with a DE to follow. Pete did a great job presenting the PCA DE philosophy and what was expected of instructors and then it was off to the cars for our first exercise. They were a little short on instructors to act as students so one of the other candidates who was already an instructor for the region got "promoted" to the student role. I still feel bad that he didn't get the experience of having an antagonist in the car. Turned out he was a Psychiatrist and he was very good in the role of clueless green student. He tried everything he could to overwhelm me and it was a great exercise. I think there were a couple more classroom / track sessions and then a checkout ride with the CI playing the role of student. We did a couple of laps and he told me to pull in. I was a little worried that I didn't do well be he said I did great and it was a good thing because he had a student for me the next day. Oookay, here we go.
My first student was a very large fellow in his daughter's stock Boxster and 0/0 experience. That and the fact that I knew Boxsters well gave me some confidence. 'At least he won't know what I don't know...' He was actually the perfect first student. He started out tentatively and got increasingly more confident and consistent with every session. By the end of the weekend we passed a couple of Gt3s.
He followed direction well and I swear I could actually see the light bulb go off in his head. I was hooked, almost instant gratification. Too bad it's not always like that but happens often enough. On the last day they were allowing ride-a-longs for friends and family and my student asked me to take his daughter out in my car. This was my first time at RRR but it's a pretty easy track to learn and by the last day I was hanging it out pretty well and having a blast driving so I considered whether it was wise to tempt fate and take a pretty young girl out for a ride at the end of a so far perfect weekend. I tried to beg off but I could tell she really wanted to go so I relented. I had to keep reminding myself to dial it back but I could tell she was having fun. We pulled in at the end of the session and as soon as she got out she bummed a cigarette from her dad. "That's the first one she's had in a month" her dad said. "You must have been good". Maybe I didn't dial it back enough.It's still one of my favorite track weekends. The other thing I remember about it was the freezing rain we had Saturday night. I warmed up again during the day but the first run in the morning, going down the straight I had huge sheets of ice coming at me from the whale tails in front of me. I still enjoy instructing but I don't get to do many DEs these days since it's tough enough to get the time for five race weekends but In a couple of years when my kids are both out of the house I will do more.
Last edited by sbelles; 12-05-2018 at 02:46 PM.
12-05-2018, 03:02 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
2008
Since he OP originally asked about experiences with the national instructors school, I will relate mine. I did it in Jan of 08 at Roebling Road. I'm not sure how I even got in since I had never instructed before that but I did have nine years of DE experience with PCA and others groups and previous racing experience albeit two decades prior to that time. I also had experience as a ski instructor and a ski racing coach years ago so I guess someone thought I might have an aptitude for instructing.
As I recall, the instructor school was on a Friday with a DE to follow. Pete did a great job presenting the PCA DE philosophy and what was expected of instructors and then it was off to the cars for our first exercise. They were a little short on instructors to act as students so one of the other candidates who was already an instructor for the region got "promoted" to the student role. I still feel bad that he didn't get the experience of having an antagonist in the car. Turned out he was a Psychiatrist and he was very good in the role of clueless green student. He tried everything he could to overwhelm me and it was a great exercise. I think there were a couple more classroom / track sessions and then a checkout ride with the CI playing the role of student. We did a couple of laps and he told me to pull in. I was a little worried that I didn't do well be he said I did great and it was a good thing because he had a student for me the next day. Oookay, here we go.
My first student was a very large fellow in his daughter's stock Boxster and 0/0 experience. That and the fact that I knew Boxsters well gave me some confidence. 'At least he won't know what I don't know...' He was actually the perfect first student. He started out tentatively and got increasingly more confident and consistent with every session. By the end of the weekend we passed a couple of Gt3s. He followed direction well and I swear I could actually see the light bulb go off in his head. I was hooked, almost instant gratification. Too bad it's not always like that but happens often enough. On the last day they were allowing ride-a-longs for friends and family and my student asked me to take his daughter out in my car. This was my first time at RRR but it's a pretty easy track to learn and by the last day I was hanging it out pretty well and having a blast driving so I considered whether it was wise to tempt fate and take a pretty young girl out for a ride at the end of a so far perfect weekend. I tried to beg off but I could tell she really wanted to go so I relented. I had to keep reminding myself to dial it back but I could tell she was having fun. We pulled in at the end of the session and as soon as she got out she bummed a cigarette from her dad. "That's the first one she's had in a month" her dad said. "You must have been good". Maybe I didn't dial it back enough.
It's still one of my favorite track weekends. The other thing I remember about it was the freezing rain we had Saturday night. I warmed up again during the day but the first run in the morning, going down the straight I had huge sheets of ice coming at me from the whale tails in front of me. I still enjoy instructing but I don't get to do many DEs these days since it's tough enough to get the time for five race weekends but In a couple of years when my kids are both out of the house I will do more.
As I recall, the instructor school was on a Friday with a DE to follow. Pete did a great job presenting the PCA DE philosophy and what was expected of instructors and then it was off to the cars for our first exercise. They were a little short on instructors to act as students so one of the other candidates who was already an instructor for the region got "promoted" to the student role. I still feel bad that he didn't get the experience of having an antagonist in the car. Turned out he was a Psychiatrist and he was very good in the role of clueless green student. He tried everything he could to overwhelm me and it was a great exercise. I think there were a couple more classroom / track sessions and then a checkout ride with the CI playing the role of student. We did a couple of laps and he told me to pull in. I was a little worried that I didn't do well be he said I did great and it was a good thing because he had a student for me the next day. Oookay, here we go.
My first student was a very large fellow in his daughter's stock Boxster and 0/0 experience. That and the fact that I knew Boxsters well gave me some confidence. 'At least he won't know what I don't know...' He was actually the perfect first student. He started out tentatively and got increasingly more confident and consistent with every session. By the end of the weekend we passed a couple of Gt3s.
He followed direction well and I swear I could actually see the light bulb go off in his head. I was hooked, almost instant gratification. Too bad it's not always like that but happens often enough. On the last day they were allowing ride-a-longs for friends and family and my student asked me to take his daughter out in my car. This was my first time at RRR but it's a pretty easy track to learn and by the last day I was hanging it out pretty well and having a blast driving so I considered whether it was wise to tempt fate and take a pretty young girl out for a ride at the end of a so far perfect weekend. I tried to beg off but I could tell she really wanted to go so I relented. I had to keep reminding myself to dial it back but I could tell she was having fun. We pulled in at the end of the session and as soon as she got out she bummed a cigarette from her dad. "That's the first one she's had in a month" her dad said. "You must have been good". Maybe I didn't dial it back enough.It's still one of my favorite track weekends. The other thing I remember about it was the freezing rain we had Saturday night. I warmed up again during the day but the first run in the morning, going down the straight I had huge sheets of ice coming at me from the whale tails in front of me. I still enjoy instructing but I don't get to do many DEs these days since it's tough enough to get the time for five race weekends but In a couple of years when my kids are both out of the house I will do more.
Alex H.Bell II 200801042 First Settlers