Z-man

I am not an instructor, but someday soon, I hope to be one.

Counter point: When I was a newbie at this, my first instructor didn't take me out in his car until the afternoon of the last day. There was a specific reason for this: Had he taken me out first, even if he was driving at 6/10ths, I would have thought, geez, I can drive this fast too! I would have gone out and gotten myself into some serious trouble!

I think it is best for an instructor to first drive their student's cars, at roughly the pace the student would run. This enables the student to get an idea of the track, what the car can do. This also enables the instructor to get a feel for the student's car, it's handling, power...etc.

Seriously, for first time track drivers, riding along with an instructor in the instructor's car can have some bad consequences, IMHO.

Again, just my (non-instructor) opinion.
-Zoltan.

PS: Since moving up in the ranks, I have found that riding with instructors helps me learn a lot, and is almost as fun at driving out there myself!

Bill Gregory

Oh what the heck....I'm an instructor, and in our PCA and BMW regions, we drive the first few laps at lowered speeds to point out track in, apex, track out and flag stations. I've never had anyone complain about this (seems to be an emotional point in some other parts of the country). For advanced students, I just jump in, and we go. For student rides, if we take a student out, it's in the run group one above where they are driving. We've found that taking beginning students out in the instructor run group leaves them hanging on for dear life and not learning much, if anything.

Robert Henriksen

If it makes you feel any better, Bill, that's how the lone star region runs things as well.

RedlineMan

Hey Z;

Don't worry about offering opinions when not being an instructor. Being one doesn't mean you have a better brain or something. In fact, I've found it MUST NOT HAVE BEEN a prerequisite in some instances!!

All good points guys. I too am very cautious in taking students out for rides. If it is a very "green" student, I will take them out in a group lower than mine (ours). I am a firm believer in not imprinting them with ideas they can't manage in their reality. This is dependant on my perceived psych evaluation of them at their stage of development.

Most novice students will progress to the point where they are getting the line and feel of driving down pretty well, and consequently "Speed Happens." This of course brings up the trickier aspects of the line and of setup. This is usually the point where I am trying to teach them that all this talk of smoothness is relative to the speed you are going. When they are struggling with early apexing, turn-in drift, or other conscious/subconscious vices, and can't quite seem to grasp PRECISELY what is necessary despite their or my Herculean efforts, then it is time for a more advanced ride.

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I know these may seem to be well trodden paths here, but then again there is a fair amount of debate still going on regarding these topics as less experienced groups or individuals dip their toes in the DE waters. For those who are new to it all, they are getting good insight. For those in the middle of it, the ideas floated here can build consensus, and this understanding can be carried to their respective realms and applied to the discussion.

I have written a large group of driving articles as a result of my instructing. http://redlinerennsport.homestead.com/DriversEdEd.html
I have realized that while obviously being a guide for other students and instructors, those articles also represent me learning to instruct. By qualifying and codifying my thoughts and experiences in writing, I have refined my thinking and purified the message. I'd offer that the same is being done here!

Brian P

Great articles! Well written and well thought out. It's a shame that it's hard to find similar stuff like this.

RedlineMan

Thank you Brian;

I appreciate your kind endorsement. When you care to do something well... it shows, eh?
Hard to find?? Not anymore... hopefully!

trumperZ06

Noooo problem with the Ferrari.... as long as you can pay for any accidents!!!

trumperZ06

Great D E articles . I read them a couple of year's ago and even made copies for my instructing book! I still refer to them as a "refresher" !!!