Porsche 996R - help with history!
03-01-2018, 11:06 AM
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Porsche 996R - help with history!
Hi!
I have just purchased a 996R that was raced by Chris Wally from 2000 to 2005 in the PCA series. I am trying to put together the history of the car. Rennpoints has history from 2004 onwards but not for the period before this. Does anybody know where I could find PCA results prior to 2004 online?
Many thanks,
Mike
I have just purchased a 996R that was raced by Chris Wally from 2000 to 2005 in the PCA series. I am trying to put together the history of the car. Rennpoints has history from 2004 onwards but not for the period before this. Does anybody know where I could find PCA results prior to 2004 online?
Many thanks,
Mike
03-01-2018, 01:19 PM
#2
Mike,
Congratulations on your purchase. The GT3R is a very interesting car and well worth some research to find out about its history. I would suggest a multi-pronged approach. First, enter the VIN in Google and see what turns up. Try entering the VIN, which starts with WP0, two different ways -- with the third character as either a zero or an "oh." It could be listed either way in historical records. The VIN may pull up some history of racing, previous sales, importation records, or who knows what. Go to racingsportscars.com and look there too, along with GT3R.com. Somehow contact Chris Wally himself. Ask him what he recalls. Find out who maintained the car for him while he raced it and talk to them as well. See if those people have any old pictures of the car -- or logbooks -- that give you any clues. Contact Porsche Motorsport North America (PMNA) in California and see if they can help. Give them the VIN, but more importantly, the engine number and the three-digit number that PMNA stamps on the case and heads during a rebuild. They can look up records of a rebuild that can give you some history (such as who owned it). Also, look for seals on the engine and/or transmissions that may be a clue as to whether PMNA did a rebuild -- or whether another Porsche Motorsport facility may have done it (such as in Germany or the UK). Be ready to write to folks abroad for information. Look at the car for any clues. Old tech stickers may suggest where in the world it ran, or in what series (Grand Am, ALMS, European series, etc.). You can also try to contact Porsche in Germany. If you can find the right person (such as Dieter Langeberger who is in charge of the archives), you may be able to learn who originally purchased the car, or what country it went to, and you can try to work the history from the other end. The most interesting history for the car is probably its first year or two of use, so you will have fun figuring this out.
If you are able to break through and find out who owned or raced it, you're likely to find a treasure trove of information and photographs. Maybe even videos. You can contact the driver(s), search on their driving histories online, and perhaps obtain yearbooks that were published that will document its results and have photos. You may be able to find the names of photographers who have shots of the car and get copies from them. Good luck with your research.
Oh, and one more thing. Do you know if your car was re-tubbed? If so, it makes things even more complex. PM me if you want to "talk" further.
Congratulations on your purchase. The GT3R is a very interesting car and well worth some research to find out about its history. I would suggest a multi-pronged approach. First, enter the VIN in Google and see what turns up. Try entering the VIN, which starts with WP0, two different ways -- with the third character as either a zero or an "oh." It could be listed either way in historical records. The VIN may pull up some history of racing, previous sales, importation records, or who knows what. Go to racingsportscars.com and look there too, along with GT3R.com. Somehow contact Chris Wally himself. Ask him what he recalls. Find out who maintained the car for him while he raced it and talk to them as well. See if those people have any old pictures of the car -- or logbooks -- that give you any clues. Contact Porsche Motorsport North America (PMNA) in California and see if they can help. Give them the VIN, but more importantly, the engine number and the three-digit number that PMNA stamps on the case and heads during a rebuild. They can look up records of a rebuild that can give you some history (such as who owned it). Also, look for seals on the engine and/or transmissions that may be a clue as to whether PMNA did a rebuild -- or whether another Porsche Motorsport facility may have done it (such as in Germany or the UK). Be ready to write to folks abroad for information. Look at the car for any clues. Old tech stickers may suggest where in the world it ran, or in what series (Grand Am, ALMS, European series, etc.). You can also try to contact Porsche in Germany. If you can find the right person (such as Dieter Langeberger who is in charge of the archives), you may be able to learn who originally purchased the car, or what country it went to, and you can try to work the history from the other end. The most interesting history for the car is probably its first year or two of use, so you will have fun figuring this out.
If you are able to break through and find out who owned or raced it, you're likely to find a treasure trove of information and photographs. Maybe even videos. You can contact the driver(s), search on their driving histories online, and perhaps obtain yearbooks that were published that will document its results and have photos. You may be able to find the names of photographers who have shots of the car and get copies from them. Good luck with your research.
Oh, and one more thing. Do you know if your car was re-tubbed? If so, it makes things even more complex. PM me if you want to "talk" further.
03-10-2018, 04:13 AM
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Firstly gents, thank you for your responses.
I know some of the history of the car - it was bought new by Chris Wally and raced by him in in Porsche Club events from 2000 - 2005. I have spoken to him several times but unfortunately he does not have records of all of the races and his results. The car was prepped and run by Kelly Moss during this period. I have spoken to them also and they, unfortunately, have no records either. Googling the VIN gives me very little and the usual sources (racing sports cars, etc) have no details on the car as they only track FIA races, not club races. Finally, I have spoken to Porsche Club America who have not been very helpful at all! What I am really looking for is the PCA race results for 2000 - 2003 and any information about what happened to the car post 2005 (I have asked the guy who sold me the car for more information and am waiting for his response). The car VIN is WPOZZZ99ZYS692087 . Any further help would be gratefully received!!
Thanks, Mike
I know some of the history of the car - it was bought new by Chris Wally and raced by him in in Porsche Club events from 2000 - 2005. I have spoken to him several times but unfortunately he does not have records of all of the races and his results. The car was prepped and run by Kelly Moss during this period. I have spoken to them also and they, unfortunately, have no records either. Googling the VIN gives me very little and the usual sources (racing sports cars, etc) have no details on the car as they only track FIA races, not club races. Finally, I have spoken to Porsche Club America who have not been very helpful at all! What I am really looking for is the PCA race results for 2000 - 2003 and any information about what happened to the car post 2005 (I have asked the guy who sold me the car for more information and am waiting for his response). The car VIN is WPOZZZ99ZYS692087 . Any further help would be gratefully received!!
Thanks, Mike
03-10-2018, 11:28 AM
#5
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I have Chris Wally 2004 Cup which was imported by KMR and raced in PCA and GT3 Cup series. It changed hands a few times before I bought it. Jeff S from KMR knew my car right away. Your VIN is not consistent with cup series VINs. Usually after the 99Z, there is number indicating the year: eg. WPOZZZ99Z4S689870.
03-10-2018, 11:41 AM
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Hi MSR.
You are quite right, my car is not a 996 Cup, it is a 996R. It has a year 2000 996R chassis number (http://www.webbimages.co.uk/chassisindexpage.htm). As I mentioned above, Chris bought it in 2000 and raced it through the beginning of 2005. He replaced it with a cup car in 2004 or 2005 (he can't remember exactly when) which I presume is the one that you now own. KMR ran my car for him before running the Cup car for him. I have also spoken to Jeff and he remembers Chris trading my car for the Cup car (yours I presume) but cannot remember who he sold it to. That is what I am trying to discover.
Cheers, Mike
You are quite right, my car is not a 996 Cup, it is a 996R. It has a year 2000 996R chassis number (http://www.webbimages.co.uk/chassisindexpage.htm). As I mentioned above, Chris bought it in 2000 and raced it through the beginning of 2005. He replaced it with a cup car in 2004 or 2005 (he can't remember exactly when) which I presume is the one that you now own. KMR ran my car for him before running the Cup car for him. I have also spoken to Jeff and he remembers Chris trading my car for the Cup car (yours I presume) but cannot remember who he sold it to. That is what I am trying to discover.
Cheers, Mike
03-10-2018, 11:50 AM
#7
I would have thought that someone at PCA headquarters could provide you with, at least, some information. Can you determine who was in charge of PCA club racing back then and contact them directly, even if they're no longer with the PCA? Or anyone who was very active in that group during that period who you could reach out to? Can Chris Wally tell you what tracks he ran at during his tenure? That would help narrow it down a bit. Do you know if PCA Club racing results might have been published in Porsche Panorama? I have a complete set going back to 1977 and could look a them to see. But I wouldn't think that Panorama, even if it had some section on PCA Club Racing, would have as much detail as you would like.to see. Do you know (or can you find out) if there's a PCA Club racing newsletter or yearbook that chronicles the results? Grand Am does that, and it's very helpful. It appears that this car was not set up for Grand Am, though, given the missing door guard bar on the driver's side cage. As for Kelly Moss, one side of me thinks they might have records they just aren't excited to go dig up. But then again, it was quite a long time ago and they have many customers. Unless you're paying them for their services, they may not be motivated to help. If Chris Wally was the driver, you'd think he'd still be your best source. And no one has a logbook? Photos? Videos? Ex wives with a recollection? C'mon...
As for the years after 2005, if you have absolutely no idea who owned it, it may be more difficult. Once these cars fade from currency, their histories become more obscure. I Googled the VIN. Different information shows up both ways, as I had suggested above. You've probably already done this. If you use a "zero" for the third character, you'll see a picture of the car, in white, for sale in Kansas City in 2014, which reportedly sold for $110K. If you search with an "Oh," you'll see the car for sale in Texas, in some sort of Martiini livery, for a price of $0.99. I hope you bought it from the guy in Texas -- that was an unquestionably good deal. One of those ads mentions Gordon at Autometrics had been through the car. Have you talked to him? He's very nice to deal with and he may have a recollection.
I would still contact PMNA to see if they have records of having rebuilt the engine. In addition to the engine number, is there a 3-digit, stamped, number on the engine case (and heads)? And green epoxy covering the oil gallery plugs on the engine? Both are indications that they may have serviced the engine. How about a seal on the engine or transmission? If so, PMNA may have records of who ordered a rebuild on the engine or transmission, and what was done. From the Google search, it sounds like the car was sold with a 2005 engine at some point and that the original engine was sold with the car (in pieces?). Do you have both? Each might provide a clue. PMNA can also tell you the original engine and transmission number that went with that VIN. Good luck with your research.
As for the years after 2005, if you have absolutely no idea who owned it, it may be more difficult. Once these cars fade from currency, their histories become more obscure. I Googled the VIN. Different information shows up both ways, as I had suggested above. You've probably already done this. If you use a "zero" for the third character, you'll see a picture of the car, in white, for sale in Kansas City in 2014, which reportedly sold for $110K. If you search with an "Oh," you'll see the car for sale in Texas, in some sort of Martiini livery, for a price of $0.99. I hope you bought it from the guy in Texas -- that was an unquestionably good deal. One of those ads mentions Gordon at Autometrics had been through the car. Have you talked to him? He's very nice to deal with and he may have a recollection.
I would still contact PMNA to see if they have records of having rebuilt the engine. In addition to the engine number, is there a 3-digit, stamped, number on the engine case (and heads)? And green epoxy covering the oil gallery plugs on the engine? Both are indications that they may have serviced the engine. How about a seal on the engine or transmission? If so, PMNA may have records of who ordered a rebuild on the engine or transmission, and what was done. From the Google search, it sounds like the car was sold with a 2005 engine at some point and that the original engine was sold with the car (in pieces?). Do you have both? Each might provide a clue. PMNA can also tell you the original engine and transmission number that went with that VIN. Good luck with your research.
Last edited by Rob S; 03-10-2018 at 02:25 PM.
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03-13-2018, 11:15 AM
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Thank you very much for your help on this Rob. The advert for the car in Martini livery is particularly interesting as the car is in the same livery now. Unfortunately I paid a little more than the 99 cents asking price though! I will definitely get in touch with Gordon to see what he remembers. The car is being delivered soon so I will be able to look for the stamped numbers on the engine cases and get in touch with PMNA. I will have a further chat with Chris Wally to see if I can jog his memory as well.
Many thanks again Rob!
Many thanks again Rob!
03-14-2018, 09:16 AM
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03-27-2018, 01:57 PM
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More info on the 996R can be found here:
http://www.gt3r.com/intro.html
The first 911R was actually a 1967 911 2.0 fitted with a twin spark engine from the 906 and stripped down to 800kgs. Pretty quick race car in its day and worth quite a bit now...
http://www.gt3r.com/intro.html
The first 911R was actually a 1967 911 2.0 fitted with a twin spark engine from the 906 and stripped down to 800kgs. Pretty quick race car in its day and worth quite a bit now...