SUGGESTIONS NEEDED: first car race - 24 hour event.
01-16-2018, 02:05 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
SUGGESTIONS NEEDED: first car race - 24 hour event.
hello all,
first time on this subforum because i'm entering as a replacement driver in a 24 hour race with a team at Buttonwillow in February. While i've done many motorcycle track days, and plenty of car track days with passing.. i've never participated in a car race. I would like to see if other who have entered in races like this have advice as far as mental prep, things to look out for, rookie mistake stories to share with me.
I'm also looking for some used equipment asap.. suit, helmet with hans attachments etc. I'm 5.10 and 180lb if anyone has stuff they want to get rid of.
thank you!!!
first time on this subforum because i'm entering as a replacement driver in a 24 hour race with a team at Buttonwillow in February. While i've done many motorcycle track days, and plenty of car track days with passing.. i've never participated in a car race. I would like to see if other who have entered in races like this have advice as far as mental prep, things to look out for, rookie mistake stories to share with me.
I'm also looking for some used equipment asap.. suit, helmet with hans attachments etc. I'm 5.10 and 180lb if anyone has stuff they want to get rid of.
thank you!!!
01-16-2018, 02:39 PM
#2
Addict
Rennlist Member
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What kind of “race” is it? Do you need a license? I assume that there will also be others with no experience so always keep that in mind.
01-16-2018, 02:43 PM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
https://www.racelucky.com/
i was invited by some friends last minute so thought i'd try this out. much for fun to drive slow cars on a track with others, than track days in supercars with no real competition.
01-16-2018, 03:13 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
It can be extremely (mentally) intimidating hitting the track for the first time in a race, especially if you are inexperienced. Good thing to remember is that at races like this there will be numerous drivers in your same shoes.
Best advice is to stay out of the way. Watch your mirrors closely and if someone catches you, let them by quickly. Focus then on following them/learning and racing the cars in front of you while accommodating those catching you from behind. Important to never assume in these races: with the disparate skill sets there is no such thing as "owing" a line or an apex and always be prepared for someone to do something stupid. It's an enduro, so lap times are less important than the informal endurance motto of "Don't hit s%$t!".
After your first hour you should be settled in and have an understanding of the flow; by your 3rd or 4th hour you should be comfortable mixing it up with other cars. Important to keep in mind that it takes time, so don't try to do too much too soon......and stay out of the WAY!!!
Also, enjoy yourself. You're not going to be setting any lap records, so instead focus on bringing the car home and relishing the experience. Endurance races are epic fun. You'll have a smile on your face for a week afterwards.
Best advice is to stay out of the way. Watch your mirrors closely and if someone catches you, let them by quickly. Focus then on following them/learning and racing the cars in front of you while accommodating those catching you from behind. Important to never assume in these races: with the disparate skill sets there is no such thing as "owing" a line or an apex and always be prepared for someone to do something stupid. It's an enduro, so lap times are less important than the informal endurance motto of "Don't hit s%$t!".
After your first hour you should be settled in and have an understanding of the flow; by your 3rd or 4th hour you should be comfortable mixing it up with other cars. Important to keep in mind that it takes time, so don't try to do too much too soon......and stay out of the WAY!!!
Also, enjoy yourself. You're not going to be setting any lap records, so instead focus on bringing the car home and relishing the experience. Endurance races are epic fun. You'll have a smile on your face for a week afterwards.
01-16-2018, 05:37 PM
#6
Drifting
My first time wheel to wheel was in a chumpcar race. I was given the first stint and I was pretty nervous. I'm reasonably quick as I had been doing a lot of solo and autocross stuff, but the skills aren't totally transferable. For your first stint, just try to be aware of where everyone is. Watch your mirrors and treat it as a cooperative exercise like a lapping day with open passing. When people catch you, it's all about letting them by efficiently and safely, hell even give them a point-by and minimize the time you both lose. When you catch someone, wait for a good opportunity to go by; don't try to force your way past. Also assume that the person you are passing is a rookie and may not have seen you. I've had to bail out of a lot of passes over the years in Chumpcar races because the guy I was passing didn't see me. Just take your time, it's a long race and you have teammates who would rather drive than turn wrenches. Going quick is important, but staying out on track is much more important. Being 3s a lap faster doesn't mean squat if you have to spend 30 minutes fixing something because you were pushing the limits or have to get towed out of the mud.
01-16-2018, 05:48 PM
#7
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Politely I will say that you should seriously re-consider this venture. From the outset you said you have no race experience, no racing licence which assumes also you have never been to an accredited racing school. In addition you own no equipment and are looking for deals on used stuff (bad approach as you should NEVER cheap out on safety equipment). Lastly the race you are entering equally has no licensing rules meaning that there is no way of qualifying the drivers AND it is being run in a 24 Hour format which is especially dangerous and challenging.
In racing practice and preparation are the most important elements to ensure a good result and proper personal safety. The plan as I see it is lacking in both from almost every imaginable angle and you are leaving a lot to chance and the uncontrollable actions of others.
In racing practice and preparation are the most important elements to ensure a good result and proper personal safety. The plan as I see it is lacking in both from almost every imaginable angle and you are leaving a lot to chance and the uncontrollable actions of others.
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01-16-2018, 06:38 PM
#8
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Politely I will say that you should seriously re-consider this venture. From the outset you said you have no race experience, no racing licence which assumes also you have never been to an accredited racing school. In addition you own no equipment and are looking for deals on used stuff (bad approach as you should NEVER cheap out on safety equipment). Lastly the race you are entering equally has no licensing rules meaning that there is no way of qualifying the drivers AND it is being run in a 24 Hour format which is especially dangerous and challenging.
In racing practice and preparation are the most important elements to ensure a good result and proper personal safety. The plan as I see it is lacking in both from almost every imaginable angle and you are leaving a lot to chance and the uncontrollable actions of others.
In racing practice and preparation are the most important elements to ensure a good result and proper personal safety. The plan as I see it is lacking in both from almost every imaginable angle and you are leaving a lot to chance and the uncontrollable actions of others.
01-16-2018, 07:15 PM
#9
I started in Chump Car and now race with Lucky Dog.
Due to the relatively low cost of the vehicles involved, they are relative slow which makes the whole thing a lot safer. That said, newer cars are getting faster and risk comes from closing speed deltas. This happened to a friend recently.
The best way to approach being on track is to not treat it as a sprint race, do not make any sudden moves in traffic, and assume everyone else will be doing the unexpected, unless you know both the car and driver and have observed them in traffic.
Lucky Dog is run by Kathy, who takes safety quite seriously. This is a no contact series. Even a small bump when witnessed will result in a pointed black flag and a pit drive through or hold for all involved.
That said some people are really clueless and will frustrate you. Keep the red mist in check.
If I were driving a big $$$ GT car I would not want any of these people on track with me without a license. Still, the cars we race are not cheap. They say you can start with a $500 car, but we spent $20k prepping our old neon, and are spending that again on a new car.
Some old school road-race types tend to look down their nose at this type of racing, but ignore them. There are a lot of senior road racers in LDRL now, and you can find some good people to chase and play with.
As far as safety and prep goes, do some strength and aerobic training. Fitness helps. Hydrate before and on the weekend. Skratch hydration mix is what our team augments with. Splurge on a light suit. In hot events a cool shirt is amazeballs. For underwear and gloves GForce is fine. My OMP suit was the best $$$ I ever spent. You can also share a head and neck restraint with someone similar sized if you buy your own anchors.
Some good Porsche guys out of Portland run a 924 in a u-Boat theme. Go say hi.
Have fun!
Due to the relatively low cost of the vehicles involved, they are relative slow which makes the whole thing a lot safer. That said, newer cars are getting faster and risk comes from closing speed deltas. This happened to a friend recently.
The best way to approach being on track is to not treat it as a sprint race, do not make any sudden moves in traffic, and assume everyone else will be doing the unexpected, unless you know both the car and driver and have observed them in traffic.
Lucky Dog is run by Kathy, who takes safety quite seriously. This is a no contact series. Even a small bump when witnessed will result in a pointed black flag and a pit drive through or hold for all involved.
That said some people are really clueless and will frustrate you. Keep the red mist in check.
If I were driving a big $$$ GT car I would not want any of these people on track with me without a license. Still, the cars we race are not cheap. They say you can start with a $500 car, but we spent $20k prepping our old neon, and are spending that again on a new car.
Some old school road-race types tend to look down their nose at this type of racing, but ignore them. There are a lot of senior road racers in LDRL now, and you can find some good people to chase and play with.
As far as safety and prep goes, do some strength and aerobic training. Fitness helps. Hydrate before and on the weekend. Skratch hydration mix is what our team augments with. Splurge on a light suit. In hot events a cool shirt is amazeballs. For underwear and gloves GForce is fine. My OMP suit was the best $$$ I ever spent. You can also share a head and neck restraint with someone similar sized if you buy your own anchors.
Some good Porsche guys out of Portland run a 924 in a u-Boat theme. Go say hi.
Have fun!
01-16-2018, 08:02 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
For the suit, go to RaceImage.com They sell pre-owned suits that were custom made (with exact measured sizes posted) for race teams. Every time a sponsor changes, the entire team needs new suits. They are priced from $150 - $400 . Some cost the team over $2,500 since they are custom made for the driver/pit crew person. The owners name is Dave, a good guy. I bought one, fits like it was made for me.
01-16-2018, 09:30 PM
#12
Drifting
I started in endurance racing 8 years ago when this was just getting started. I had no clue -- I had not even done track days.
Self preservation and later, getting involved in HPDE allowed me to survive :-)
I now endurance race regularly, have a PCA club race license, and instruct at HPDE's.
Give respect on the track. Know your mirrors. Scale back your driving in traffic. It's a 24 hour race -- pick and choose your "racey" moments.
A newbie isn't going to be on a winning team -- so drive like its a really long HPDE/Sunday cruise. Consistency and survival are your main goals.
Its a team event -- lend a hand, be a buddy, be someone that your team wants to have come back due to your on and off track behavior.
Hopefully you know the track -- that will help. There is no way to prepare for night racing -- It can be absolutely terrifying -- I've been doing it for 8 years -- and there are moments every race I
think to myself what the hell and I doing out here -- I'm also one of the first to get tapped for doing extended night stints on the team -- so go figure -- you just
learn to deal with it and get in a groove.
Hydrate -- get yourself some flashlights for off track use -- a helmet/head band light is invaluable.
Practice getting in and out of the car. Especially getting out of the car. Now do the extraction blindfolded.
If you don't know anything about wrenching -- be the gofer guy -- have a shop towel, zip ties, duct tape at the ready. Be the jack and jack stand guy --
Volunteer to be a refueler -- it's a PITA job -- but it's easy and appreciated.
You'll get more seat time than you ever bargained for -- and your learn a lot once you get past survival mode -- which might not be for a few races :-)
most of all -- enjoy yourself and don't take yourself, your team or the event too seriously.
Mike
Self preservation and later, getting involved in HPDE allowed me to survive :-)
I now endurance race regularly, have a PCA club race license, and instruct at HPDE's.
Give respect on the track. Know your mirrors. Scale back your driving in traffic. It's a 24 hour race -- pick and choose your "racey" moments.
A newbie isn't going to be on a winning team -- so drive like its a really long HPDE/Sunday cruise. Consistency and survival are your main goals.
Its a team event -- lend a hand, be a buddy, be someone that your team wants to have come back due to your on and off track behavior.
Hopefully you know the track -- that will help. There is no way to prepare for night racing -- It can be absolutely terrifying -- I've been doing it for 8 years -- and there are moments every race I
think to myself what the hell and I doing out here -- I'm also one of the first to get tapped for doing extended night stints on the team -- so go figure -- you just
learn to deal with it and get in a groove.
Hydrate -- get yourself some flashlights for off track use -- a helmet/head band light is invaluable.
Practice getting in and out of the car. Especially getting out of the car. Now do the extraction blindfolded.
If you don't know anything about wrenching -- be the gofer guy -- have a shop towel, zip ties, duct tape at the ready. Be the jack and jack stand guy --
Volunteer to be a refueler -- it's a PITA job -- but it's easy and appreciated.
You'll get more seat time than you ever bargained for -- and your learn a lot once you get past survival mode -- which might not be for a few races :-)
most of all -- enjoy yourself and don't take yourself, your team or the event too seriously.
Mike
01-16-2018, 11:46 PM
#14
Every racer has to have their first race. Good luck and have fun.
Treat it like an advanced DE. Watch your mirrors and even give point bys if possible. If they're faster, get out of the way.
Do NOTHING out of the ordinary. No quick unpredictable movements in traffic.
Pass where it makes sense. Not while going through a series of S turns.
Use all your senses. You might not see someone in your mirror but you can hear a car next to you. Pay attention.
Use common sense. If the car behind you is no longer there, there's a good chance he's beside you.
Have Fun!
Treat it like an advanced DE. Watch your mirrors and even give point bys if possible. If they're faster, get out of the way.
Do NOTHING out of the ordinary. No quick unpredictable movements in traffic.
Pass where it makes sense. Not while going through a series of S turns.
Use all your senses. You might not see someone in your mirror but you can hear a car next to you. Pay attention.
Use common sense. If the car behind you is no longer there, there's a good chance he's beside you.
Have Fun!
01-17-2018, 01:42 AM
#15
Race Director
Thread Starter
guys... THANK YOU!
this is better and more in-depth advice than I ever hoped to receive.
I was expecting more of the : "don't do it.. , i have no idea what this racing thing is, but it sounds stupid and this is your father speaking and I know better" style (thanks Nuvolari ;-D )... luckily, more experienced voices prevailed.
I'm going to reread this thread a few times this weekend, but my major takeaways for now are:
1. smooth passing
2. marathon not a sprint
3. don't crash.. driving is more fun than wrenching.
Luckily, there is one aspect where I do have some experience as I've got years of experience doing motorcycle track days in the advanced or fast group which has very high speeds and passing in corners. Advanced group motorcycles approach lap record speeds, and when you put your own body on the line like that.. you learn that letting a pass happen or not happen doesn't matter as much as everyone getting by smoothly. I've touched fairings while leaned right over at 100mph+, if i was able to keep my cool in those situations, then i'm thinking that an endurance race in a Miata should be relatively sedate and calm in comparison. The self-preservation element is strong inside me, I'm in it to have fun and show gratitude to this team who is hosting me.
Having said that, despite years on track on bikes at much higher speeds, it's true, i haven't raced before. But as others have said, this series seems to be very well run, and is set up to minimize accidents due to inexperience. I'm going to try this for a few times, see how I enjoy it.. if it gets under my skin then I'll invest in higher end gear and possibly purchase my own racing car (the team I'm guest driving with currently is racing a well-developed Miata).
keep posting experience and feedback if you care to share, I'm truly reading every word carefully. I'm very excited for this first experience.
this is better and more in-depth advice than I ever hoped to receive.
I was expecting more of the : "don't do it.. , i have no idea what this racing thing is, but it sounds stupid and this is your father speaking and I know better" style (thanks Nuvolari ;-D )... luckily, more experienced voices prevailed.
I'm going to reread this thread a few times this weekend, but my major takeaways for now are:
1. smooth passing
2. marathon not a sprint
3. don't crash.. driving is more fun than wrenching.
Luckily, there is one aspect where I do have some experience as I've got years of experience doing motorcycle track days in the advanced or fast group which has very high speeds and passing in corners. Advanced group motorcycles approach lap record speeds, and when you put your own body on the line like that.. you learn that letting a pass happen or not happen doesn't matter as much as everyone getting by smoothly. I've touched fairings while leaned right over at 100mph+, if i was able to keep my cool in those situations, then i'm thinking that an endurance race in a Miata should be relatively sedate and calm in comparison. The self-preservation element is strong inside me, I'm in it to have fun and show gratitude to this team who is hosting me.
Having said that, despite years on track on bikes at much higher speeds, it's true, i haven't raced before. But as others have said, this series seems to be very well run, and is set up to minimize accidents due to inexperience. I'm going to try this for a few times, see how I enjoy it.. if it gets under my skin then I'll invest in higher end gear and possibly purchase my own racing car (the team I'm guest driving with currently is racing a well-developed Miata).
keep posting experience and feedback if you care to share, I'm truly reading every word carefully. I'm very excited for this first experience.