Track liability waivers not enforceable?
12-15-2017, 12:41 PM
#31
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General Description: This general liability insurance coverage is intended to protect PCA and its chartered regions and their members, event officials/instructors, drivers, crews, and other event participants, as well as event site landowners/managers/lessors and event racing vehicle owners and sponsors, and event sponsors from bodily injury, property damage, personal injury or advertising claims arising out of a covered incident at a PCA moving car or nonmoving car (meetings, concours, etc.) event. Type of Coverage: Limits: Bodily Injury Liability, Property Damage $10,000,000 Liability, Participant Legal Liability, Per event Contractual Liability, Products Liability, Personal Injury and Advertising Liability, Host Liquor Liability; Mobile Equipment Liability Medical Professional Liability (Excess) $1,000,000 Per event Event Officials’ Errors and Omissions Coverage regarding rules enforcement $ 100,000 Per event Exclusions: Exclusions include, but are not limited to the following: Moving car events where no effective system is in effect to collect Release and Waiver forms or where members of the general public are permitted to enter restricted areas without signing Release and Waiver forms, as well as concerts, amusement rides, thrill shows, etc.
12-15-2017, 12:45 PM
#32
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Log into pca.org, then go to forms and documents, then under insurance you will see "Event Liability Coverage Summary." Here is what it says:
General Description: This general liability insurance coverage is intended to protect PCA and its chartered regions and their members, event officials/instructors, drivers, crews, and other event participants, as well as event site landowners/managers/lessors and event racing vehicle owners and sponsors, and event sponsors from bodily injury, property damage, personal injury or advertising claims arising out of a covered incident at a PCA moving car or nonmoving car (meetings, concours, etc.) event. Type of Coverage: Limits: Bodily Injury Liability, Property Damage $10,000,000 Liability, Participant Legal Liability, Per event Contractual Liability, Products Liability, Personal Injury and Advertising Liability, Host Liquor Liability; Mobile Equipment Liability Medical Professional Liability (Excess) $1,000,000 Per event Event Officials’ Errors and Omissions Coverage regarding rules enforcement $ 100,000 Per event Exclusions: Exclusions include, but are not limited to the following: Moving car events where no effective system is in effect to collect Release and Waiver forms or where members of the general public are permitted to enter restricted areas without signing Release and Waiver forms, as well as concerts, amusement rides, thrill shows, etc.
General Description: This general liability insurance coverage is intended to protect PCA and its chartered regions and their members, event officials/instructors, drivers, crews, and other event participants, as well as event site landowners/managers/lessors and event racing vehicle owners and sponsors, and event sponsors from bodily injury, property damage, personal injury or advertising claims arising out of a covered incident at a PCA moving car or nonmoving car (meetings, concours, etc.) event. Type of Coverage: Limits: Bodily Injury Liability, Property Damage $10,000,000 Liability, Participant Legal Liability, Per event Contractual Liability, Products Liability, Personal Injury and Advertising Liability, Host Liquor Liability; Mobile Equipment Liability Medical Professional Liability (Excess) $1,000,000 Per event Event Officials’ Errors and Omissions Coverage regarding rules enforcement $ 100,000 Per event Exclusions: Exclusions include, but are not limited to the following: Moving car events where no effective system is in effect to collect Release and Waiver forms or where members of the general public are permitted to enter restricted areas without signing Release and Waiver forms, as well as concerts, amusement rides, thrill shows, etc.
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-Peter Krause
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"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
-Peter Krause
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www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
12-15-2017, 12:48 PM
#33
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Yeah, but in the real world here is the risk:
Driver A hits/nudges Driver B. Avoidable? Not avoidable? Doesn't matter. Driver B sues Driver A despite having signed a waiver. Heaven forbid Driver B is a CGT and Driver A is a 944.
The guy in the 944 is now in a position to shell out $30-40k in legal fees, just to defend the waiver.
That's why, PCA SHOULD play a role and have some liability coverage available...
Driver A hits/nudges Driver B. Avoidable? Not avoidable? Doesn't matter. Driver B sues Driver A despite having signed a waiver. Heaven forbid Driver B is a CGT and Driver A is a 944.
The guy in the 944 is now in a position to shell out $30-40k in legal fees, just to defend the waiver.
That's why, PCA SHOULD play a role and have some liability coverage available...
Don't believe for one moment that if you do something malicious with intent that your road insurance or umbrella policy is going to go to bat for you. Accident's happen and that's what insurance is for, but we're talking about actions outside the scope of that. With regard to the Tony Stewart matter, the local district attorney didn't believe they could get a criminal conviction based on the evidence. Civil court doesn't have the same standards and even if a jury found Tony at fault, guaranteed it would be a percentage shared with the deceased. Regardless, if you don't do something stupid, the waiver is the best protection you're going to have.
In the past, I was concerned with liability as an instructor on track and asked our local chapter about this very thing. At the time, I was informed that PCA has a $10m policy for any on track incidents. It's been a few years, but I can't imagine that has changed.
12-15-2017, 12:57 PM
#34
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Yes, but not at this level. Some of the contracts I have are from 1 million to 5 million. The 10 that PCA has is more than most, IIRC. Also, many tracks will allow an organizer to buy insurance through the tracks provider if they don't have their own. But, I think they all require insurance, so you're covered, but you don't always know for how much.
12-15-2017, 01:20 PM
#35
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Yeah, but in the real world here is the risk:
Driver A hits/nudges Driver B. Avoidable? Not avoidable? Doesn't matter. Driver B sues Driver A despite having signed a waiver. Heaven forbid Driver B is a CGT and Driver A is a 944.
The guy in the 944 is now in a position to shell out $30-40k in legal fees, just to defend the waiver.
That's why, PCA SHOULD play a role and have some liability coverage available...
Driver A hits/nudges Driver B. Avoidable? Not avoidable? Doesn't matter. Driver B sues Driver A despite having signed a waiver. Heaven forbid Driver B is a CGT and Driver A is a 944.
The guy in the 944 is now in a position to shell out $30-40k in legal fees, just to defend the waiver.
That's why, PCA SHOULD play a role and have some liability coverage available...
Note -- that's word of mouth - and probably worth less than the price you paid to read this.
M
12-15-2017, 01:26 PM
#36
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Yes, but not at this level. Some of the contracts I have are from 1 million to 5 million. The 10 that PCA has is more than most, IIRC. Also, many tracks will allow an organizer to buy insurance through the tracks provider if they don't have their own. But, I think they all require insurance, so you're covered, but you don't always know for how much.
The larger car clubs like PCA and racing clubs like VSCCA obtain blanket policies with K&K, Naughton and other insurers, with each event, start to finish, issued a written certificate of coverage. Been like this for a long time...
12-15-2017, 01:33 PM
#38
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12-15-2017, 01:38 PM
#39
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This is EXACTLY my point and the reason I started this thread. The lawyers here can blather all they want. However, in the real world, the rest of us are one step closer to being bankrupted for some frivolous claim of "intent" simply because a precedent may have been set alleging that waivers are worthless.
Remember, its a scary thing to walk out your front door because at any point someone can sue you for anything, no matter how frivolous, and being right doesn't always protect you. My point is that you have the same exact risks driving around town so the odds of an issue at the track are smaller than the risk you run everyday just being out and about.
Everybody should just stop worrying so much about Tony Stewart and this stupid article. Have a beer and enjoy life - you'll be fine! (But as a lawyer I in no way specifically guaranty, or imply, that you will enjoy your life or your beer.)
12-15-2017, 01:41 PM
#40
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^^^ your font should have been much smaller.. just saying...
12-15-2017, 06:35 PM
#41
Yes, but not at this level. Some of the contracts I have are from 1 million to 5 million. The 10 that PCA has is more than most, IIRC. Also, many tracks will allow an organizer to buy insurance through the tracks provider if they don't have their own. But, I think they all require insurance, so you're covered, but you don't always know for how much.
12-15-2017, 06:51 PM
#42
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General Description: This general liability insurance coverage is intended to protect PCA and its chartered regions and their members, event officials/instructors, drivers, crews, and other event participants, as well as event site landowners/managers/lessors and event racing vehicle owners and sponsors, and event sponsors from bodily injury, property damage, personal injury or advertising claims arising out of a covered incident at a PCA moving car or nonmoving car (meetings, concours, etc.) event. Type of Coverage: Limits: Bodily Injury Liability, Property Damage $10,000,000 Liability, Participant Legal Liability, Per event Contractual Liability, Products Liability, Personal Injury and Advertising Liability, Host Liquor Liability; Mobile Equipment Liability Medical Professional Liability (Excess) $1,000,000 Per event Event Officials’ Errors and Omissions Coverage regarding rules enforcement $ 100,000 Per event Exclusions: Exclusions include, but are not limited to the following: Moving car events where no effective system is in effect to collect Release and Waiver forms or where members of the general public are permitted to enter restricted areas without signing Release and Waiver forms, as well as concerts, amusement rides, thrill shows, etc.
12-15-2017, 07:20 PM
#44
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