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Any one using a safety devices cage in their 944/968?

 
Old 12-15-2003, 11:45 AM
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Zu_langsam
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Default Any one using a safety devices cage in their 944/968?

Just wondering if anyone is using a safety devices bolt in cage in their car? I found a great deal on a used one, it has a bolt in harness bar but no door bars which suprised me. I was also wondering if the front mounting points went through the vents in the dash or in front of them, I am hoping that they go through as to avoid blocking the window switches. Any other comments appreciated.
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Old 12-15-2003, 02:25 PM
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I had a SD cage installed last year and like it.

Mine has the removable harness bar, which is a blessing in that it allows me to slide 2 wheels against the seat backs (with the rear seatback removed) so I can carry a full set of track wheels inside the car.

The front of the cage does not go through the vents, but rather runs down in front of the dash. It does not block the window switches, but it does block the dash vent outlet. This placement reduces foot room when entering/exiting the car, but I didn't want to have my dash hacked up.

I am sure you could have the door bars fabricated, but they have some subtle bends which will take a fabricator some some time to replicate so that they line up properly with the mounting clamps and do not interfere with the seats or door.

Since the one you're looking at is used, check it carefully to be sure it isn't bent.

Let me know if you have any questions.
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Old 12-16-2003, 09:32 AM
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I have an SD cage in my 911 C2 (964)...great quality for a removable bar!

As for the door bars missing, one word of advice, just make sure the "ears" are there to bolt them in...and DO NOT weld in the bolt-in plates until you have the door bars bolted in.

These will change the placement of the front "feet" for the forward hoop.

I think you will like the subtle bends in the bars that accomodate your factory seatbelt mounts, front "A" pillars, etc.

You can buy the door bars separately, for a reasonable price - call Laurette at Stable Energies in Jersey.

She can help you with just about anything Safety Devices related.
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Old 12-16-2003, 11:29 AM
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Thanks for the replies! I am trying to work out the details with the seller. My biggest concern is that I do not know if this cage is DOM, and the seller seems to know very little about it, He owns a shop in ca. and removed this from a customer's car. I do not need a full cage for the events that I run, just a bar, but this cage is priced so low that I thought it might make sense to buy it. I'll give stable-energies a call, thanks.
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Old 12-16-2003, 01:36 PM
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Zu, one things is IMPERITIVE about this bar...as it's inevitable that a good percentage of "DE Guys" wind up goin' RACIN'!!

...I know, been there, doing that.

Talk to Laurette, there is a code stamped on the right leg for the main hoop, or is it the OTHER right?? Anyway, this code will tell whether it is the .095 version or .120 bar. No matter, no how, no way would I consider buying the .095 (lightweight) version as it is NOT allowed in any racing organization...especially for the weight of our P-Cars.

Get that info. from Laurette and don't buy it if:

1) he can't seem to locate that info.
2) it is in fact the .095 (lightweight) version.

Trust me on this one...I always thought, "no way would I EVER take my C2 Racin'!!" Look at me now.

You don't want to have to reverse things that you did just for DE, etc. and then turn around and spend big bucks doing it the right way if you decide to tryout Club Racing. Since purchasing my C2, I have ALWAYS kept in mind with whatever modifications/upgrades that I've done or are considering, "Is this within the PCA guidelines for STOCK classes??"

Thank GOD I did that!!
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Old 12-16-2003, 08:32 PM
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Very good advice and info indeed, especialy regarding the cage, BUT I have made up my mind and I am sticking to the desicion that I WILL NOT race this car. I am young and money is tight. I want to use this car to move up through DEs, I have to oportunity to do TTs with it so I am jumping on that and I have plans to do a comp school. I want to race wheel to wheel more than you can immagine but the only way that I will be able to jump into it is with a spec car (ie spec miata, honda challenge, 944 cup) and I am exploring all options. For now I just need a well rounded car that is capable on the track and decent on the street. ..hmm...but the idea of a 951 race car...
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Old 12-17-2003, 08:33 AM
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Default Aaaaaaah...

...you must be a NASA member? If you attended any NASA Va. events in 2003, you probably ran into me...as a matter of fact, I can guarantee it.

I had it in my head that I in no way shape or form would race my C2 - those plans have gone to the wayside as of June of 2003. Hmmmmmm, Time Trials eh?? The hook is set.

Trust me on this one, KEEP your car "legal" for racing...it will help resale as well. Keep in mind that you're making upgrades that aren't EASILY reversible, as the safety devices cage requires that you weld in the bolt-plates - so pretty much, no matter what, they will always be there, so do it right.

Look forward to seeing you at NASA events - look for my white C2, yellow wheels or the blue/silver bullet.
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Old 12-17-2003, 09:19 AM
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I sure am Looking forward to getting back out there this spring, see ya at the track.
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Old 12-17-2003, 12:02 PM
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Jeff (Hi Jeff) has give excellent advice. Even though you may not want to race it; the next buyer may. Or just may be more 'picky'. Unless the cage is FREE don't go with the light guage. Cause FREE is just what you may get out of it when you try to sell.

I have the SD cage installed. Like all the ready made cages it is highly compromised to fit into all cars of a series with interiors in place. All in all I do not dislike it or the quality. I see you are doing a 951? The last car I did we used an OG cage and I like it SLIGHTLY more but for areason that may not matter to you. OG and SD are about the same price.

The SD rear brace goes to the top of the wheel arch. OG to the rear frame members. I think the OG is therefore stiffer. But bolting to the wheelarch is a lot easier than welding the plates to the frame (next to the fuel tank no less). And all said and done I'm sure the SD is plenty stong enough.

The SD diagonal is part of the rear bace plane not the main hoop. I'm sure it is plenty strong. Some sanctioning bodies (NASA and SCCA) do specifiy the diagonal must be part of the main hoop. The OG is in the main hoop plane. So someone who does want to race in the future may (depending on the reasonableness of the tech inspector) need to weld another diagonal into the SD.

The side bars are about the same on both. Some folks complain the SD bolted fittings are not as strong as welds. They should look up the strength of grade 8 bolts (for OG) or 8.8 (for SD).
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Old 12-17-2003, 02:39 PM
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John,
Can you elaborate on the comment---

The SD diagonal is part of the rear bace plane not the main hoop. I'm sure it is plenty strong. Some sanctioning bodies (NASA and SCCA) do specifiy the diagonal must be part of the main hoop.---

I haven't looked at the details of my bar in a while but IIRC the diagonal is welded to the to top of the main hoop. I'm thinking of 944 Cup racing in the next few years.

Thanks,
Jerome
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Old 12-17-2003, 03:38 PM
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Jerome, I can helpout on that one.

On the Safety Devices cages that I've seen, including the one I welded into my C2, the diagonal brace goes from the top of the main hoop and to the right rear leg...vice staying within the "horizontal plane" of the main hoop - which NASA requires.

In other words, NASA requires a diagonal brace that goes from the top of the main hoop and to one of the main supporting legs, vice one of the rear legs. That is the one thing that makes the Safety Devices cage "ODD" - and I have urged Laurette and Bob of Stable Energies to advise P-Car owners of this "oddity".

A local fabricator says he can add it in (NOT removable) for $75 - so someday I'm going to take him up on that.

I will be required to weld a new diagonal brace that stays within the main hoop to be legal, but so far they have not pressed the issue.
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Old 12-17-2003, 03:59 PM
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Jeff,

Thanks for the info. I understand now and can see how the NASA reguirement leads to a potentially stronger cage.

Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to add after the fact as long as it wouldn't interfere with the harness bar.
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Old 12-18-2003, 09:34 PM
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Candidly, what might be the best pre-made cage is the Das-Sport down in Charlottsville. They used to be up in PA and it's the cage that goes down through the airvents. As you can tell looking at my cars I think the dash should just be ripped out anyway; but by going through the vent they take the forward leg much further toward where is should be and I do care about that! If I was starting from scratch that might be what I would look at. It's about $300 more than the OG or SD

Jerome. In MD? Are'nt you "one of ours"?
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Old 12-18-2003, 10:01 PM
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Hey John,

Yes, I'm one of "your's". I know I've met you a few times at DEs.

I'm going to be an IC next year so you're going to see more of me. I'll buy you a beer sometime for all the great work you've done for our DE program. Enjoy your 'retirement.'

And if I can convince my wife to let me race (and get an extra leg welded on my SD cage) you may see me at some 944 Cup events.
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Old 12-19-2003, 12:24 AM
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ARRRRGH! I hate screen-names. You gonna make me look through 2000 records for Jerome in Germantown with a 951?

Wonder what I'd need to do for Linda to get the code written for a sort by first name, car, and city?
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