View Poll Results: Who's at fault?
white 944
43
24.29%
orange SPB
134
75.71%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll
Who's at fault?
07-25-2017, 11:47 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
I don't race, most of my buddies do and these are always topics in the paddock, and well, I've seen this exact issue more than a few times and in all cases that I recall the passing car was issued the 13.
Orange assumed the white car saw him, he didn't or white wouldn't have turned in. And, orange initiated the pass while white was moving track right for the next turn, plenty of time (of course in hindsight) to pull back and wait. Voted orange.
Orange assumed the white car saw him, he didn't or white wouldn't have turned in. And, orange initiated the pass while white was moving track right for the next turn, plenty of time (of course in hindsight) to pull back and wait. Voted orange.
07-25-2017, 11:48 AM
#33
Also if you are banned that means you had a 13 previously and therefore have a history which might have come into consideration.
07-25-2017, 11:50 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yes. I tried to present it from the 3rd person to avoid affecting the vote and the discussion but it's probably pretty obvious to most that I was the orange SPB driver.
07-25-2017, 12:05 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Also if you are banned that means you had a 13 previously and therefore have a history which might have come into consideration.
07-25-2017, 12:09 PM
#38
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
1. white 944
2. orange SPB
Two SPB's are racing each other at a recent PCA club race and in Lap 7 (+/-1) are approaching a lapped white 944 going 20-30sec per lap slower on a 2:45 track. The first clip of the video is from the second SPB. The second clip is from the orange SPB involved in the contact with the white 944. All cars continued racing and finished the race:
https://vimeo.com/225939678
For those unfamiliar with Monticello (MMC):
https://www.monticellomotorclub.com/...hlighted-1.jpg
The contact occurred at the letter "I" on the map at the turn-in for Turn 17. The section is a high-speed, full-throttle, 'pseudo-straight' very similar to the WGI Esses or LRP No Name Straight.
Please explain your vote.
Thx!
2. orange SPB
Two SPB's are racing each other at a recent PCA club race and in Lap 7 (+/-1) are approaching a lapped white 944 going 20-30sec per lap slower on a 2:45 track. The first clip of the video is from the second SPB. The second clip is from the orange SPB involved in the contact with the white 944. All cars continued racing and finished the race:
https://vimeo.com/225939678
For those unfamiliar with Monticello (MMC):
https://www.monticellomotorclub.com/...hlighted-1.jpg
The contact occurred at the letter "I" on the map at the turn-in for Turn 17. The section is a high-speed, full-throttle, 'pseudo-straight' very similar to the WGI Esses or LRP No Name Straight.
Please explain your vote.
Thx!
07-25-2017, 12:18 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by CFGT3
The video from the trailing car in the first part of the video shows the 944 moving over and you having the opportunity to back off, but you didn't. The audio from your onboard video reveals you lifted once the 944 moved over. You're reaction was to get back on the gas and try to make the pass rather than back off. That's why you got the 13.
07-25-2017, 12:24 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
There was no backing off even way before that point. Not enough space and grip to take off speed before the crest which would have meant hitting the white car lopsided or from behind and that would have ended much more badly for both cars. At that point, when it became clear that he wasn't going to leave my any space, I went into preservation mode trying BOTH to align the cars so that the hit was directly side-to-side AND to ensure I wasn't going to get pushed four-off into the grass.
Last edited by hf1; 07-25-2017 at 12:47 PM.
07-25-2017, 12:31 PM
#41
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
THIS. And history is relevant in the sense it's only your third race and you already got banned. I recall a sketchy pass at Lime Rock, lap 2 , going in between 2 cars at the bottom of the uphill to pass 2 clearly faster cars who were stuck behind other traffic and both promptly passed you back on the front straight. High risk, low reward move. NOT illegal, but definitely questionable judgement. And rubbing is not allowed in PCA. Again, if you knew you already had a 13 from Lime Rock, why attempt a sketchy pass instead of waiting
07-25-2017, 12:33 PM
#42
Three Wheelin'
I've been in a few mixed class races over the years and when I see a fast car approaching from behind I hold my line. The 944 seems to be clueless or unaware of his surroundings., but the SB didn't make a clean pass. You're poll only offers two choices so I have to go with, it's the SB fault even though both share the blame.
07-25-2017, 12:34 PM
#43
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I know both drivers and the white 944 was driving with our shop that weekend. While there is no X on his car I believe this was his first race in a while.
Where the accident occurs is the lead into "kryptos", a high speed off camber kink leading to a hair-pin turn onto the back straight. I wouldn't compare it to the esses at WGI other than to say it is not generally a place where you want to pass someone.
In the enduro I had to drive with 944 and SPB cars. In this exact same situation I backed off except if the other driver made his position abundantly clear or gave a point by. Backing off would kill my lap but that's the way it goes.
At the end of the day it is the passing car's responsibility to make the clean pass. You also need to know who you are driving with. I believe the 944 should have been more aware, but if I were the orange SPB I would not have assumed he saw me.
944 60% blame/ SPB 40% blame
Hard to say SPB deserved the 13 other than he had the responsibility for initiating the pass.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
Where the accident occurs is the lead into "kryptos", a high speed off camber kink leading to a hair-pin turn onto the back straight. I wouldn't compare it to the esses at WGI other than to say it is not generally a place where you want to pass someone.
In the enduro I had to drive with 944 and SPB cars. In this exact same situation I backed off except if the other driver made his position abundantly clear or gave a point by. Backing off would kill my lap but that's the way it goes.
At the end of the day it is the passing car's responsibility to make the clean pass. You also need to know who you are driving with. I believe the 944 should have been more aware, but if I were the orange SPB I would not have assumed he saw me.
944 60% blame/ SPB 40% blame
Hard to say SPB deserved the 13 other than he had the responsibility for initiating the pass.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
07-25-2017, 12:44 PM
#44
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Let me add one more thing. Racing is chess at 100 MPH... I have no idea where or what, where this video was taken before viewing today, but a veteran racer would have assessed this situation a little better.
If I see a lone 944 running on track and I'm about to pass it, I'm assuming it's at the back of the pack, perhaps a rookie (I actually have no idea how many were entered for this particular race, but it doesn't matter) and that it's there for a reason. PROCEED WITH CAUTION AND EXPECT ANYTHING... substitute 944 or Bxst or any other class. Situational awareness doesn't only pertain to what you see, it's what you assess in the moment or thinking 2 steps ahead.
If I see a lone 944 running on track and I'm about to pass it, I'm assuming it's at the back of the pack, perhaps a rookie (I actually have no idea how many were entered for this particular race, but it doesn't matter) and that it's there for a reason. PROCEED WITH CAUTION AND EXPECT ANYTHING... substitute 944 or Bxst or any other class. Situational awareness doesn't only pertain to what you see, it's what you assess in the moment or thinking 2 steps ahead.
07-25-2017, 01:15 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
deleted