jlanka

POTD!

jlanka

dead heat in the vote so far, 8-8. Shared fault seems like the best analysis.

LexVan

I just heard back from Vegas, the over/under is set at 12.5 pages.

jlanka

edit: Can't link to Facebook video, but it show Barricello getting squeezed in a similar (albeit higher speed) incident

Funny that this appears on the F1 facebook page today:

hf1

Unfortunately a 13 was given (and confirmed in appeal) eliminating the orange SPB from PCA racing for 13 months. The results from this poll and the comments/views of the PCA racing peers will be factors in deciding whether or not it returns to race with PCA next year.

bsztanko

Clearly 944 fault. always leave racing room! Always be aware of your surroundings!!

1990nein

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bsztanko

Hold your line doesn't mean run into a car if he is already there. Hold your line means stay predictable. Rule #1 always leave racing room.

audipwr1

Mixed

One hand Seems like poor place to initiate a pass

Other hand I don't know track well enough to know if Orange thought white was giving him the outside line

Either way Orange was completely trusting white was aware and we have all been there about how costly that sort of judgement can be

sbelles

Shared blame but the 944 was already turning in when the orange car initiates the pass. I would have gone two in the grass to avoid the contact though. Hell, I'm two in the grass there and the next one anyway. The white car had a tough rookie weekend. He was the meat in a Boxster sandwich earlier.

Edit: Please don't take this too personally, you're a good driver but it's your first year and you've 13ed out already. You can't control what the other drivers do so when you come back you need to examine what you can do differently. In this case, you could have lifted a little and still gotten by him before the next turn. When to take chances and when not too takes some time to learn. Good luck to you next year.

linzman

Going by PCA rules, it was the passing cars fault. I agree that other series might have ruled differently, but you have to race by the rules of the series you're in. If you've been banned for 13 months, it must be your 2nd 13 in 3 races in your rookie year for PCA. An iffy pass for sure, even more so if you already had a 13.

garrett376

So this is the 2nd 13 the orange car got within 13 months? Are there more variables to factor into the 13/13 decision than just the two videos presented here?

This incident is alarming: that 944 presents a significant danger if they are not watching their mirrors, especially being one of the slowest cars out there. From the limited info available, the 944 should get a 13/13 for not leaving racing room as it appears to do what Bryan Henderson discussed in his recent CRN article about straight-away incidents. Also in that same CRN magazine was a discussion about the difference between DE and Racing: that 944 was thinking this was a DE event with zero brain power devoted to "tactical awareness".

hf1

Relevant parts of orange SPB's appeal (Comments welcome):

*******************
INTRODUCTION

It was explained to me that the other car was just 'driving the line' which, to the extent that it was actually doing that (instead of staying left to leave me room for a pass, as it initially appeared to me), apparently makes it immune from any fault for the incident. With this appeal I would like to demonstrate that 'just driving the line' is not (or at least should not be) a valid argument/defense in many situations, including the incident at hand.

In addition, the video shows that the other car went from full left to full right across the whole width of the track, leaving me ZERO racing space. Leaving me even half a car-width would have been enough to avoid contact. There was enough track there for the other car to make plenty of other decisions/choices which would have allowed us to negotiate the section problem-free. I, on the other hand, was left with no options but to try to stay on the track, and actually put two wheels in the dirt trying to avoid the contact. I am now wondering if the other driver had even seen me in his mirrors, and if so then what had been going through his mind as he veered from full left to full right across the whole width of the track as I'm passing him on his right at a large speed differential.

PART 1

If the section of the track can be viewed as a turn, then the point of contact did not happen anywhere near an apex but at a turn-in point for a left-hand turn. There is no apex there to be 'owned' by anyone. I was passing on the right, on the outside, starting a left-hand turn. Without going into whether apexes or parts of the track could/should be 'owned' by anyone, does the slower car 'own' the turn-in point of a turn, i.e. the very edge of the track there, as well?

I will give a few EXAMPLES which in my view would be equivalent to the case at hand.

Left-hander going into the Right-hander at LRP...
Assume that a slower car is well on the right side of the track in the section between the Left-hander and the Right-hander at LRP. A much faster car is passing it on the left at or before the turn-in point for the Right-hander. Can the slower car still just 'drive the line', go all the way to the left edge for the turn-in, and block/hit the passing car? Would that be the passing car's fault, since the slower car was just 'driving the line'?

The last (right-hand) Turn 11 at WGI...
Assume that a slower car is well on the right side of the track ahead of the turn-in point into the last (right-hand) Turn 11 at WGI. A much faster car is passing it on the left side at or before the turn-in for Turn 11. Can the slower car just 'drive the line', go all the way to the left edge for the turn-in, and block/hit the passing car? Would that be the passing car's fault, since the slower car was just 'driving the line'?

I submit that IF the section of my incident is viewed as an entry (turn-in) to a turn, then the incident at hand closely resembles these examples and that the passing car would NOT be at fault in any of them. I could be wrong and I am willing to learn.

PART 2

Another and perhaps more correct way to view this track section would be as a pseudo-straight with a meandering sequence of soft (near full throttle) turns similar to the Esses at WGI or No Name Straight at LRP. Plenty of problem-free passes in all racing series, including PCA, have occurred on those sections especially of a faster car approaching at a large speed differential and passing a slower/lapped car. If in these sections the slower car blocked the faster car by 'driving the line' and by veering across the whole width of the track without leaving any racing space, would the faster car be the one at fault for the contact?

When a pass is initiated in any of these sections by a much faster car, does the slower car still have the right to simply 'drive the line' regardless of the position of the passing car OR does/should 'leave racing space' take priority for the sake of the safety of everyone involved?

I submit that there are many situations in which just 'driving the line' is not (or should not be) a valid defense for the slower car, including all of the listed examples and especially the incident at hand. After all, there is a reason why all cars must have rear view mirrors and why all drivers must use them. We wouldn't need them if simply 'driving the line' without any regard of what's coming from behind was enough for proper and correct racing. Again, I could be wrong and I am willing to learn.
*******************

morsini

Paul Solk

Hf1, I have to ask, are you the Orange Boxster? You keep talking about this from a 3rd person perspective but based on your photo it looks like it is your car... Were you the driver at the time?