CGT Prices
#2446
nothing huge? Again no differences and in the future this “dynamic” won’t exist. The buyers are worse than Ferrari? The sway bar difference some say you can change it? Dude it’s a **** you turn. Is that worth a premium for an 05. I understand you have an 05. Just remember those that actually don’t need to pump an 05 value know full well there’s zero difference but keep telling yourself that.
Turning a **** is not worth the premium for an 05 but when spending I listen to the experts of which I am simply repeating based on my experience of which I reflected in my post. Pumping up my car by posting - you think I care about pumping up my car or simply helping a guy make a decision based on experience - it's not my money he asked a question that deserved an answer and by you stating zero difference adding future prices will be no different is IMO you pumping up your 04
#2447
A buyer should use any reason he can to negotiate a better deal. I'd try to use the 04 thing to get a better deal. Based on my research and a few conversation of those that have first hand experience, I'm almost indifferent which one I choose to actually own/drive. But by all means, use it as a negotiating leverage point when you are buying. And use the 05-is-better when you are trying to sell. Some people will truly care; others, like me, will just see how much it can help them on either side of the coin of negotiations.
I don't think the 04 represents any mechanical/functional/reliability/performance inferiority to the 05, if that is your concern. If it's resale/negotiation, just use it for what it is.
I don't think the 04 represents any mechanical/functional/reliability/performance inferiority to the 05, if that is your concern. If it's resale/negotiation, just use it for what it is.
#2448
A buyer should use any reason he can to negotiate a better deal. I'd try to use the 04 thing to get a better deal. Based on my research and a few conversation of those that have first hand experience, I'm almost indifferent which one I choose to actually own/drive. But by all means, use it as a negotiating leverage point when you are buying. And use the 05-is-better when you are trying to sell. Some people will truly care; others, like me, will just see how much it can help them on either side of the coin of negotiations.
I don't think the 04 represents any mechanical/functional/reliability/performance inferiority to the 05, if that is your concern. If it's resale/negotiation, just use it for what it is.
I don't think the 04 represents any mechanical/functional/reliability/performance inferiority to the 05, if that is your concern. If it's resale/negotiation, just use it for what it is.
The CGT response to an early question - at any mileage condition is a collectors car the question is what premium someone can justify to stroke a check think it's more relative to ones means majority of collectors who wanted one has one they may trade up for a better example often the CGT is the only Porsche in top collections which again speaks volumes as to the value even at 699k whereas we had the same discussions not long ago at 400k!
#2449
Great information here. I may be in the market to buy a CGT in the next 6-12 months, depending on how well I hustle. As many of you know, I'm a driver and not a collector so I'd be looking for a driver car (aka I can drive and not take a bath on putting some miles on it while I put smiles on my face). What mileage constitutes a "driver" versus a "collector" car? Over 5k miles? Over 10k miles? I don't care about mileage, I care about condition and maintenance.
#2450
Others probably can answer the question better than me - and I stand to be corrected - but I understand that the issue was mechanical clutch disc slip. It was sometimes refered to as the 'glossy clutch' problem. The fix as I understand it was to replace the disc. It did not affect all discs and was evidently not trackable meaning that it could not simply be identified by VIN - only by inspection. In the end, ironically, a costly fix but not a big deal. And nothing to carry stigma through to today.
Originally Posted by nuvolari
It's just not true - ask a dealer who sells them the 04's go for less.
#2451
I believe the technical term for it is called PEBPAS (problem-exists-between-pedal-and-seat) and as you said was originally handled as goodwill by individual regional reps?. I know one or two from back then are still on here, maybe they can comment?
The price spread should shrink as potential buyers are better educated about the actual changes year-to-year.
The price spread should shrink as potential buyers are better educated about the actual changes year-to-year.
#2452
Originally Posted by nuvolari612
Speculation - had mine for a couple of years we are now 13 years in I think that ship sailed it is what it is. It would be afar more impressive argument if someone listed a last sale 04 vs 05 similar condition few years ago it was over 10% on 400k.
#2453
Personally, I think condition, history & servicing should be the determining factors when buying a car.
Beyond that, I think the concerns over values should be framed around the relative entry / exit points. Pay more for an 05 now, expect to get more when (if) you decide to sell. Pay less for an 04 now, don't expect as much when (if) you decide to sell.
Beyond that, I think the concerns over values should be framed around the relative entry / exit points. Pay more for an 05 now, expect to get more when (if) you decide to sell. Pay less for an 04 now, don't expect as much when (if) you decide to sell.
#2454
Plenty of drivers like to rev the engine a little (stores up some rotational energy) and then let out the clutch while the revs are still up. This driver-dependent technique usually can be gotten away with in cars with ordinary high-mass flywheels because the flywheel has enough stored energy to move the car from rest before it is all used up. Not so with the Carrera GT. If one used this technique with a CGT, one immediately stalled the car because all the flywheel energy was exhausted before the engine turned over a few revolutions.
Even Car and Driver summed up trying to get good 1/4-mile times or 0-60 times as "burn, buck, or stall". All from side-effects of that gorgeous, motorcycle-like, free-revving, low-mass flywheel.
The "idle-control" loop in the ECU was augmented to be able to keep the car running after clutch release with no throttle application as a driver workaround.
#2455
ECU senses the clutch engaging - signals the engine to send rpm blips / feathering the throttle to avoid stalling.
ECU clutch engagement works in 1st and 2nd - if you need to make a warm CGT "scoot" mirror the ECU by adding rpm's producing a quicker off the line no harm result simply copy what the ECU is doing by applying blips of additional throttle again it does not harm the clutch. Back then the F1s were clunky Porsche did excellent on the CGT they simply assumed they had 1200 F1 customers.
04 - 05 ECU differences have no idea but on the 05 it does zero damage - clutch is not the problem it's operator error.
ECU clutch engagement works in 1st and 2nd - if you need to make a warm CGT "scoot" mirror the ECU by adding rpm's producing a quicker off the line no harm result simply copy what the ECU is doing by applying blips of additional throttle again it does not harm the clutch. Back then the F1s were clunky Porsche did excellent on the CGT they simply assumed they had 1200 F1 customers.
04 - 05 ECU differences have no idea but on the 05 it does zero damage - clutch is not the problem it's operator error.
Last edited by nuvolari612; 01-10-2018 at 10:12 AM.
#2457
Originally Posted by nuvolari612
ECU senses the clutch engaging - signals the engine to send rpm blips / feathering the throttle to avoid stalling.
ECU clutch engagement works in 1st and 2nd - if you need to make a warm CGT "scoot" mirror the ECU by adding rpm's producing a quicker off the line no harm result simply copy what the ECU is doing by applying blips of additional throttle again it does not harm the clutch. Back then the F1s were clunky Porsche did excellent on the CGT they simply assumed they had 1200 F1 customers.
04 - 05 ECU differences have no idea but on the 05 it does zero damage - clutch is not the problem it's operator error.
ECU clutch engagement works in 1st and 2nd - if you need to make a warm CGT "scoot" mirror the ECU by adding rpm's producing a quicker off the line no harm result simply copy what the ECU is doing by applying blips of additional throttle again it does not harm the clutch. Back then the F1s were clunky Porsche did excellent on the CGT they simply assumed they had 1200 F1 customers.
04 - 05 ECU differences have no idea but on the 05 it does zero damage - clutch is not the problem it's operator error.
I've driven a CGT once a while back and was just super deliberate about letting the ECU auto clutch engagement feature do its thing. I took off like a grandma every time. However, to me, it's almost 2nd nature to give a little throttle blip right before clutch gets in the zone where it grabs. On a cgt (once warm), does that work if you manually blip it before it grabs? Is it suggested that you only use ECU clutch engagement every time? Does the ECU auto-engage still happen if you blip the throttle; meaning u can't stop the auto-blip/engage fr happening regardless?
I know I just need to get behind the wheel and feel it out. I'm not a heel/toe god but I'm pretty decent getting the most difficult clutches to engage well in 1st (not rocket science if you've driven a lot of older and/or LWFW vehicles; it's just feel from experience).
I'm curious if everyone used the ECU auto clutch engage or if people get the hang of it enough that they engage 1st manually (or if that's even possible with the ECU programming)?
#2458
#2460
Speaking of the youtube video, It's really impressive he does not stall the car while driving it this way. He's really good. I guess that's why he was (is) a professional race car driver, cuz that's not nearly as easy as it looks.
I'd love to do that in my car but I'm too chicken I'd wear the clutch down.
I'd love to do that in my car but I'm too chicken I'd wear the clutch down.