Flachbau

thanks!
04 plastic windows yes

owners had issues and complained. finally Porsche responded by offering to inspect (and repair) any vehicle in question but did not promote this because they didn't want their hallmark car's rep to be tainted - particularly when they were not selling like hotcakes anyway. so most owners should have had it checked, or had their service center volunteer to check it when brought in for service. but that does not mean that all were inspected. so yes its possible that there could be uninspected vehicles out there that have an undiagnosed issue if they have their original clutch.

I think the conclusion is that a 2004 with original clutch needs to be inspected as part of a PPI. If its ok - then I cant see the real justification for a discount to a 2005 other than stigma and perceived lower resale value in the future.

nuvolari612

Tim one 16M owner to another - there are other differences like the sway bar settings. I was in your same boat was offered a black black 1500 mile 2004 - 50k below what I bought my silver black 5500 miles 2005 IMO it's not worth the savings whatever you save will leave you explaining when it goes for sale that the 04 isn't different an have to offer a big discount.

The last model year is always a better car / worth more CGT buyers are very particular. It would have to be a really large discount and assume you will have to offer the same or more if you sell.

I know of a private seller two owner red / black 2005 nice seller.

Jrtaylor9

Wow, if an 04 of similar/better quality can be had for 50k below an 05, I'll be hunting for an 04 I can pile some miles on. Black is premium to silver and it had less miles; so sounds like it was more of a $75k-$100k premium you paid? But on that expensive of a car, I guess % not quite as outrageous. Still 75k is still 75k. That will cover a couple engine out services and/or clutches. Maybe the CGT is different, but there is zero spread between an 07/08rs or 10/11rs. But sounds like there might be a couple minor differences that don't exist in 997rs lineup.

cgt04115

Jrtaylor9

I understood the 04 clutches needed to be reprogrammed for the anti-stall issue. Sounds like there were some additional clutch issue rumors that Porsche took care of on 04's. The plastic window; not sure if I like that even better honestly and thought US didn't allow plastic windows anyway. Regardless I'd agree not sure if it's a positive or negative. There were some comments in the link provided above about some adjustable CF/magnesium's seats available with extra leg cushion. This is news to me? I've only seen the typical CGT buckets in regular and XL size. I didn't think either were adjustable with exception of manual slides below.

Idk, one thing is true: if there's a handful of guys out there that wouldn't buy an 04, that means it's that much smaller of a pool of buyers come time to sell. Sometimes that hurts. Sometimes it doesn't. I had a low mile Canadian gt2rs I imported. I had heard about the Canadian discount but bought the car cheaply enough I was willing to take the risk. At the time I sold it, market was frothy and it was THE only gt2rs on the market. My dealer wouldn't buy it on trade because it was Canadian but consigned it. A couple of guys tried to low ball me because it was Canadian. Eventually I got a couple interested buyers and it traded pretty close to par and at/near an all-time high for even a US example. However, no doubt if there had been 3-4 similar US examples at the time, it might have hurt my chances some. Those damn Km's!!! Now, a Japanese or European 964 or 993 RS that never came to the states: who cares about KM's???!!! Logical or not, it is a part of the market.

Idk. On a driver CGT that I'm gonna rack up miles, if the 04 is in good shape, I'll take the discount. AND, on a delivery mile Car that is never going to be driven, who gives a **** about the mechanical anyway? I guess there's a middle ground car that's a driver/collector hybrid where it might have more impact. Again, IDK???

cgt04115

W8MM

The "adjustable" seat-height feature amounted to spacers lifting the seat mounting points by 10mm (IIRC). So the seats could be "adjusted" by a mechanic's wrench time, but not in the ordinary sense. No levers nor motors. I received an extra set of longer seat cushions that could be switched with the regular length ones (for more under-thigh support for drivers with long legs) with my 2005 CGT.

The only other thing I can point out about 2004/2005 differences is that paint-to-sample was not available for USA in 2004. PTS was available pretty much everywhere else by mid- to late-2004.

CGT000

Don't drive yourself crazy. Buy the one you like the most. Do a ppi and make sure it's serviced. If you can get an 04 for 50 grand less then buy that one. I own a 05 but wouldn't hesitate buying an 04.

Flachbau

Not many PTS 05's so probably not a factor in this dialogue. https://**********/exterior-980-carrera-gt/

Some (mostly future) market observations/questions:

1. Some NA CGT's have left our shores but very very few to the EU. ~20% VAT kills the trade as do perceived differences to EU spec cars. Also at the height of market prices/frenzy circa 2015 when cars really started coming out of hiding trading up, the dollar's strength v. the euro made this unattractive. Some of those cars that did leave are actually trying to come back due to the continuing strong dollar and a limited resale market overseas.

2. Starting in 2019 in Canada ROW CGT's cars can be imported - will be interesting to see if any are imported, such as desireable PTS or low KM examples. We will find out the same here starting in ~2029.

3. There are a lot of 2006's in ROW. If we are talking values in 25 years when these can be imported to the US - will ROW 2006 be desireable over NA 2004/05's, even though there are no differences.

JasonAndreas

I thought this was just an ECU flash that every MY04 (at least in North America) received if it came in for (any) service after the software update was first released? Weren't they all flagged in PiWiS? And that was the reason for the TSB warning that they needed an external power supply during the diagnostic session to prevent the ECU from getting bricked?

Flachbau

That is for clutch software update - I think anti-stall? As far as I know no TSB was ever issued for a bad clutch disc. I do know that, at least early on, the issue I am referring to was handled on a case by case basis by the local rep.

Others probably can answer the question better than me - and I stand to be corrected - but I understand that the issue was mechanical clutch disc slip. It was sometimes refered to as the 'glossy clutch' problem. The fix as I understand it was to replace the disc. It did not affect all discs and was evidently not trackable meaning that it could not simply be identified by VIN - only by inspection. In the end, ironically, a costly fix but not a big deal. And nothing to carry stigma through to today.

The 2005 'upgraded clutch' appears mostly misnomer - and could simply refer to the anti-stall software update. Or maybe ... it was also just a 'statement' circulated to dealers by Porsche duplicitously for marketing purposes to get past the 2004 'PR' issue. As it never appears in Porsche official PR documentation.

Keep in mind that at the time the CGT was a big deal for Porsche, very expensive, but not selling particularly well. The PCCC Porsche Ceramic Composite Clutch itself was a big deal. Promoted as race car clutch that could far out live a standard clutch for the street. Problems with the clutch of any kind were not something Porsche would want 'out there' - whether mechanical or software related.

Truthfully I think the biggest issue was operator error using the unfamiliar PCCC Porsche Ceramic Composite Clutch leading to a lot of 'complaints'. Some complaints may have turned out to be legit related to an issue, but probably mostly not. Only Porsche knows for sure. But these things feed on themselves and take on a bigger life - particularly over time.

As to 2005 changes to 2004 here is excerpt from Porsche PR:

605-horsepower supercar even better for 2005 model year
With its V10 engine providing more than 600 horsepower and with an array of cutting edge technologies including a ceramic composite clutch and brakes beneath its carbon-reinforced body, you might wonder what improvements Porsche could possibly make to its Carrera GT supercar for the 2005 model year. Well, those changes are few indeed: A glass screen mounted between the supplemental safety bars, a seat-height adjustment feature and an additional seat cushion in the thigh area, the chassis number imprinted on the magnesium cover of the center console, a battery trickle-charger included as standard equipment and new color options for both the car’s exterior and its leather upholstery. Those small changes are all designed to further enhance the unprecedented driving experience that the Porsche Carrera GT provides to its owners.

Jrtaylor9

RL never ceases to amaze me. If a pcar question can't be answered on here, the answer doesn't exist.

nuvolari612

It's just not true - ask a dealer who sells them the 04's go for less. There is a sway bar difference some say it can be modified but the bottom line is Porsche buyers are worse than Ferrari buyers especially with the CGT. I bought a GT3RS Voo Doo Blue from Canada and later offered it at 225k 1500 miles and could not sell it and a dealer won't take it on trade don't really care it's a great car but the market does!

There are differences nothing huge but the market speaks - almost bought the low mileage black 04 my question that killed the deal is why did the seller let it go - response from Isringhausen he traded up to an 05 maybe he preferred the addition of 3 pounds

usctrojanGT3

Great information here. I may be in the market to buy a CGT in the next 6-12 months, depending on how well I hustle. As many of you know, I'm a driver and not a collector so I'd be looking for a driver car (aka I can drive and not take a bath on putting some miles on it while I put smiles on my face). What mileage constitutes a "driver" versus a "collector" car? Over 5k miles? Over 10k miles? I don't care about mileage, I care about condition and maintenance.

cgt04115