NJ-GT

Red Car sitting in a dealer in Florida.

WP0CA29885L001109

5,600 miles one owner. Originally registered and maintained in Ohio.

If you could point me to the specific problem areas to look for during a PPI, that will help me. I know that the clutch life is to be checked, and the carbon tub inspected for damage, anything else?

Thanks a lot.

Jamie140

1. Clutch measurement in mms.
2. Carbon tub damage
3. Type I and II overrevs (simple sd2 download)
4. Completeness. Esp luggage and briefcase. (include car cover, top covers, wheel nut, top cover tie downs, sunglass cases, charger, tools, books)
5. Cosmetic creamyness (no excuse for less than perfection)
6. yearly documented oil change, at least one brake flush.

Pay less than 300k for red 5k miles unless you're far richer than Obama thinks you should be.

bbs993tt

Rad,

Where is it? I'm going to be in MIA most of next week and might have some time to look it over cosmetically.

Jamie140

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...ht_3759wt_1210

I'm bored as hell. I'd fly down there too and look at it.

Fyi, the last three cars that I am aware of at that price were all black and under 2k miles.

PogueMoHone

Jamie,

Unless you can find a fire sale where someone has to dump a car, the car has inherent problems, or it is clapped out, the prices you are alluding to are unrealistic.

Wholesale numbers are not retail numbers! Sub 1K mile cars command a significant premium. The difference between a 1K car and a 7K car is about $40K for an 04 (based upon wholesale bids and current Dealer offerings). I spent the last few days checking out the market (trying to help someone establish a fair value, and I have pretty reliable Porsche Dealer contacts to back up my statements.

Color on these cars is meaningless, that is a buyers choice, but no color commands a premium, even though some may be "conned" into paying for it.

I have recently discovered that there is a big difference in 04 and 05.

On an 04, make sure that the transmission has been examine/upgraded, if you decide to buy one. Bottom fishing will get you a cheap car, and the above 6 critera that you posted are not the complete story (transmission).

The 05 is a different kettle of fish and the clutch/transmission was upgraded, that is at least a retail $385K car (for one that anyone, with a conservative bent, would want to own).

Used car prices are rising as we speak, my Dealer told me this 6 weeks ago and I doubted him. Yesterday, Marketwatch a Wall Street Journal sister publication, had a similar story. I checked with him (Dealer) again today to verify CGT prices.

Again, clapped out cars (of which there are plenty) are available cheap.

Lastly, if memory serves me correctly it is a VAL analysis you want. That is what the analysis on my car is and I bought it new. I had it done so that I would have a baseline if I ever wanted to sell my car. Yes, I am that paranoid.

To the cautious buyer, it is not about price on these cars now, it is about provenance.

To coin a phrase:

Know thy seller! Dealer or private party!

Nothing has ever changed:

Caveat Emptor

Jamie140

I've been pretty close to the market for the last three years.

The recent sales that I know of are two 1000 mile black for 360 - 365. A little earlier, around Dec, a 2000 mile black for 350. Recently, an 04 silver 1700 mile car for 315 (original owner, 30.5mm clutch and complete). I am aware of two 10k mile silvers in the 250k range.

These cars suffer a huge penalty for miles. A 5k mile red car should not command more than 300k in my view.

Asking prices command a premium for black. Those who I know who have bought and are currently shopping have either paid or are willing to pay a premium for black. Black commands a premium.

There is little difference between 04 and 05. The first 150 cars or so had a slightly different clutch setting. 05's offered a revised middle rear window, paint to sample and some weird extra thigh cushions, the purpose of which I couldn't figure out.

Bill S.

Hmm, I'm not seeing the same thing. I agree with PogueMoHone's analysis. I know a grey car that sold for $365K with over 10K miles. Mileage does affect these cars, but not much if they are in great shape and well maintained. Also, the rarer colors command a premium, like yellow and red as expected for rarer vehicles. I do agree that there is little difference between '04 and '05 regarding reliability, expect for the first few cars as you mention.

Jamie140

All I can share are the data points of sales that I know of. They were all cars I considered buying.

Red is the least desired color. A modified car is also less desirable.

Funny thing. I've always been slightly prejudiced against 04's, however, the 04 that I drove (and subsequently bought) seemed easier to drive than my 05. Clutch engagement point was less finicky. Go figure.

To the op: sent you a pm.

Edit: Here's a pic of what should accompany an 05 car. Courtesy of Josh.

PogueMoHone

^ Are you sure that is the correct briefcase? I remember it being different, and of course the luggage color matches the car.

Jamie140

Not my pic, but it looks like the top portion is hidden.

RS Clubsport

The briefcase is in the centre shot, the wooden handle (same material as the gear shift ****) is hidden by the piece of paper.

As for difference in clutch from 2004 and 2005 the only difference is in the software. There were rumours that different materials were used, Porsche have confirmed to me this is not the case.

I'm surprised these cars are so affected by mileage. Mine has covered 19000 miles now, with around 20 track days and drives exactly as it did when I first bought it 2 1/2 years ago. Clutch still less than a 1/3 worn. Porsche GB have told me of numerous niggling faults with cars that cover small mileages. RMS, leaking shocks etc. have all been evident on low mileage 'garage queens' rather than cars that are driven frequently.

Personally I'd buy on condition, provenance and service history before mileage. I have a friend who's looked at two low mileage cars stateside that are four years old, neither has been serviced!

I think over time people will realise how durable CGT's are compared to their Italian bretharan, I for one will continue to add 5-6k miles a year including track days in mine!

Small video after a recent track event at around 38 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOTJE...layer_embedded

Jamie140

You English guys tend to use them for their intended purpose. In North America, they tend to sit in garages.

I put 3000 kms on my last one in two summers. I plan to drive the wheels off my latest one.

RS Clubsport

There's plenty in the UK the same, they had one in for it's MOT last month (annual vehicle check after 3 years old) and it's done 300 miles!

The other thing in the UK within 4 hours I can be on de-restricted autobahns, one of the best trips I had was running side by side with a pal in his CGT at over 200mph totally legally!

Jamie140

Ha ha. Better than drugs, booze or sex!

enthusiast

Can you clarify the mileage remarks?

I assume the car itself is not the concern, but whether or not the owner operated and maintained it properly.