CGT Wheel alternatives
07-31-2007, 12:26 PM
#16
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Full track day at Watkins Glen with 18" BBS wheels and Michelin slicks and, most importantly, an instructor who took a day off from DP racing. Dramatic improvement in performance over the Pirelli intermediates and 19" BBS wheels. Suspension was stock with negative 2 degree camber all around. The wheels fit and the electronics work due to close OD in comparison with the OEM wheels and tires. Even the TPI sensors functioned. No changes in the wheel housing. Rack needs needs a limiter due to the larger front widths. Ran HOT pressures at 27 psi and cold at 20 PSI. Finally, enjoyed the car at speed with tires that stick. IMHO, this is the only way to run at the track.
07-31-2007, 12:39 PM
#17
You can obtain the steering lock 'stops' from Manthey Racing in Germany.
I've been very dissapointed with the CGT's on track handling on both the OE wheels and tyres and the BBS/Pirelli configuration. At Spa a couple of weeks ago the OE tyres went off after maybe 3-4 laps and lost a lot of grip. With the Pirelli's there was more front end bite, but the TC light is constantly flickering once you get on the power mid corner. I'm sure it's something to do with the higher aspect ratio of the tyre upsetting the electronics.
Manthey have the suspension kit in conjunction with KW fairly well advanced. Olaf Manthey is finalising the bump and rebound settings on the client car they have it fitted to. I have ordered the suspension kit for fitment as soon as it is ready. It will comprise dampers adjustable for bump and rebound, helper springs on both front and rear shocks, and a lift facility to raise the car 35mm up to 60 kmh. In addition there will be new adjustable down arms to increase the camber as the adjustment in the stock suspension for increasing camber is very limited.
In addition they are working on some aerodynamic modifications which will be ready early 2008.
The car is so road biased there will be some work to make it work well on track (other than the obvious advantage of the slicks which are available now) and it will be interesting to see how the Manthey/KW set up works on the car.
I've been very dissapointed with the CGT's on track handling on both the OE wheels and tyres and the BBS/Pirelli configuration. At Spa a couple of weeks ago the OE tyres went off after maybe 3-4 laps and lost a lot of grip. With the Pirelli's there was more front end bite, but the TC light is constantly flickering once you get on the power mid corner. I'm sure it's something to do with the higher aspect ratio of the tyre upsetting the electronics.
Manthey have the suspension kit in conjunction with KW fairly well advanced. Olaf Manthey is finalising the bump and rebound settings on the client car they have it fitted to. I have ordered the suspension kit for fitment as soon as it is ready. It will comprise dampers adjustable for bump and rebound, helper springs on both front and rear shocks, and a lift facility to raise the car 35mm up to 60 kmh. In addition there will be new adjustable down arms to increase the camber as the adjustment in the stock suspension for increasing camber is very limited.
In addition they are working on some aerodynamic modifications which will be ready early 2008.
The car is so road biased there will be some work to make it work well on track (other than the obvious advantage of the slicks which are available now) and it will be interesting to see how the Manthey/KW set up works on the car.
08-01-2007, 12:52 AM
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"...I've been very dissapointed with the CGT's on track handling..."
I don't understand this, I have many hot laps at Leipzig and California Speedway on street tires at speeds high enough to induce nausea. The car never went off. So it has to be driver (or over driver) input.
I have used a very successful (and extremely current champion) Pro driver as an Instructor (in my beater Porsches) and he maintains that the CGT is in a class of its own (though it is factory set up for oversteer). He instructs some clients in CGts as well, if you PM me, maybe he can sort you out.
He ain't cheap!
I don't understand this, I have many hot laps at Leipzig and California Speedway on street tires at speeds high enough to induce nausea. The car never went off. So it has to be driver (or over driver) input.
I have used a very successful (and extremely current champion) Pro driver as an Instructor (in my beater Porsches) and he maintains that the CGT is in a class of its own (though it is factory set up for oversteer). He instructs some clients in CGts as well, if you PM me, maybe he can sort you out.
He ain't cheap!
08-01-2007, 12:42 PM
#19
[QUOTE=Colm]"...I've been very dissapointed with the CGT's on track handling..." Colm, perhaps I should rephrase that, "I've been very dissapointed
with the CGT's on track handling compared to a well set up track GT3"
The reality is that the CGT is set up very much as a road car. It's handling is road biased and it is possible toget the OE tyres too hot to work properly. It is also difficult to get sufficient camber adjustment to improve the turn in with the OE suspension(remember the car is set up for the road with the tyre contact patch working on the road.)
These comments have been echoed by Olaf Manthey so it's not just my imagination! As a street car on the track the CGT in isolation is very competant, however there is so much potential to unlock to make the car substantially more track biased it would be rude not to try! Manthey will have the suspension kit ready October, and will also look atmaking the front sway bar remotely adjustable as at present it's fixed.
with the CGT's on track handling compared to a well set up track GT3"
The reality is that the CGT is set up very much as a road car. It's handling is road biased and it is possible toget the OE tyres too hot to work properly. It is also difficult to get sufficient camber adjustment to improve the turn in with the OE suspension(remember the car is set up for the road with the tyre contact patch working on the road.)
These comments have been echoed by Olaf Manthey so it's not just my imagination! As a street car on the track the CGT in isolation is very competant, however there is so much potential to unlock to make the car substantially more track biased it would be rude not to try! Manthey will have the suspension kit ready October, and will also look atmaking the front sway bar remotely adjustable as at present it's fixed.
08-01-2007, 03:41 PM
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Very interesting news on the Manthey suspension development. If they recommend it, you know they have tested it. BTW, sllick tire pressures were recommended by Manthey and they work great. Negative 1.8-2 degree camber is the max available from the OE suspension, according to my shop. I've run with 1) OE wheels, 2) 19" Pirellis and the 3) 18" Michelin slicks. You can have a great time at the track with each solution, but it just keeps getting better with better grip. In my experience, the electronics worked fine in each case. The next 5 seconds per lap will not come from improving the equipment but improving the driver. Now that I've experienced what a pro can do with my car, I'm more focused on instruction and track time than equipment upgrades. I've been able to improve more in one day with a good instructor than I have in 5-10 days without one.
08-02-2007, 12:20 AM
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[QUOTE=RS Clubsport]
You should PM me, as I indicated (or tried to) some very accomplished (and winning) pro drivers have already tweaked the car (CGT) for their customers. It would be unfair of me to give away their secrets (that is their hard earned living), but my money would go on the race driver versus the tuner!
Originally Posted by Colm
"...I've been very dissapointed with the CGT's on track handling..." Colm, perhaps I should rephrase that, "I've been very dissapointed
with the CGT's on track handling compared to a well set up track GT3"
The reality is that the CGT is set up very much as a road car. It's handling is road biased and it is possible toget the OE tyres too hot to work properly. It is also difficult to get sufficient camber adjustment to improve the turn in with the OE suspension(remember the car is set up for the road with the tyre contact patch working on the road.)
These comments have been echoed by Olaf Manthey so it's not just my imagination! As a street car on the track the CGT in isolation is very competant, however there is so much potential to unlock to make the car substantially more track biased it would be rude not to try! Manthey will have the suspension kit ready October, and will also look atmaking the front sway bar remotely adjustable as at present it's fixed.
with the CGT's on track handling compared to a well set up track GT3"
The reality is that the CGT is set up very much as a road car. It's handling is road biased and it is possible toget the OE tyres too hot to work properly. It is also difficult to get sufficient camber adjustment to improve the turn in with the OE suspension(remember the car is set up for the road with the tyre contact patch working on the road.)
These comments have been echoed by Olaf Manthey so it's not just my imagination! As a street car on the track the CGT in isolation is very competant, however there is so much potential to unlock to make the car substantially more track biased it would be rude not to try! Manthey will have the suspension kit ready October, and will also look atmaking the front sway bar remotely adjustable as at present it's fixed.
08-02-2007, 06:18 AM
#22
Originally Posted by redpackage
Very interesting news on the Manthey suspension development. If they recommend it, you know they have tested it. BTW, sllick tire pressures were recommended by Manthey and they work great. Negative 1.8-2 degree camber is the max available from the OE suspension, according to my shop. I've run with 1) OE wheels, 2) 19" Pirellis and the 3) 18" Michelin slicks. You can have a great time at the track with each solution, but it just keeps getting better with better grip. In my experience, the electronics worked fine in each case. The next 5 seconds per lap will not come from improving the equipment but improving the driver. Now that I've experienced what a pro can do with my car, I'm more focused on instruction and track time than equipment upgrades. I've been able to improve more in one day with a good instructor than I have in 5-10 days without one.
What sort of pressures do you run on the slicks?
08-02-2007, 12:21 PM
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Manthey recommended 1.5 bar COLD and 1.85-1.9 bar HOT. Using a 14.5 conversion rate from bar to psi, we ran 27 PSI HOT. The tires performed very well. Even with nitrogen, however, we had to drop the starting cold pressure down to 20 PSI to stay in the target hot range. Air temps were 80 degrees F. The onboard tire pressure monitors worked great as you watch the pressure rise to the target range during the first few laps of each track session. Everything that Manthey has suggested so far, works well.
08-05-2007, 12:50 AM
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I've mentioned this on a prior post, but I have been told that if you change the wheels/tires on the CGT and something happens, Porsche won't cover it. Anyone heard (or care) about this?
08-06-2007, 06:01 PM
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It gets better. Beginning in 2004 Porsche added a section to the waranty (on page 10) that all track use was off warranty. This year they have moved that section to the first page. Without debating where to drive this car to enjoy its potential if not on the track, I recommend using the best wheel and tire options when you do track the car.
08-07-2007, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by fayence
I've mentioned this on a prior post, but I have been told that if you change the wheels/tires on the CGT and something happens, Porsche won't cover it. Anyone heard (or care) about this?
The car is unbelievable on PS2's so on cups or slicks I would think it would be unstoppable.
Last edited by GBGT; 08-07-2007 at 01:19 PM.
08-07-2007, 10:20 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by GBGT
I have heard that apparently Lamborghini is trying to do this too. Something tells me that this will definitley conflict with the Magnuson-Moss act.
The car is unbelievable on PS's so on cups or slicks I would think it would be unstoppable.
The car is unbelievable on PS's so on cups or slicks I would think it would be unstoppable.
If they can find that the extra grip offered by the sticky tires caused a suspension failure then it wouldn't conflict with the Magnuson-Moss act. I had a Mitsu Evo for a year and a half...don't bother asking me about conflicts with the MM act...
08-29-2007, 06:51 AM
#29
Well after running the CGT on slicks at Spa on Monday I am simply astounded at how it has transformed the car.
I was there a month ago on the OE PS2 and also ran the BBS 19" wheels with Corsas and was really dissapointed with the performance of both set ups.
On slicks the CGT is just amazing, the turn in and corner speed is staggering, and as for the brakes, you can brake so much later and harder (I've got steel Brembo discs fitted.)
For anyone that runs their car on track, you will not believe the way the car stops, steers and turns when fitted with the Michelin slicks!
It has re-kindled my passion for driving the car on track!
I was there a month ago on the OE PS2 and also ran the BBS 19" wheels with Corsas and was really dissapointed with the performance of both set ups.
On slicks the CGT is just amazing, the turn in and corner speed is staggering, and as for the brakes, you can brake so much later and harder (I've got steel Brembo discs fitted.)
For anyone that runs their car on track, you will not believe the way the car stops, steers and turns when fitted with the Michelin slicks!
It has re-kindled my passion for driving the car on track!
08-30-2007, 08:01 AM
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I couldn't agree more. I've run with slicks at VIR and Watkins Glen. Next month Barber Motorsports is on the schedule. The ceramic brakes work great for my level. There's no question that this was the way the car was designed to run. Enjoy.