speculation of CGT pricing?
06-25-2006, 02:45 AM
#17
Three Wheelin'
yes alex!
06-25-2006, 08:28 AM
#18
"being a porsche, i think they will hold up better than any other supercar and everyday exotics also, such as f430"
Are you serious about the F430.....? Ferrari F430 coupes and spiders are bringing way way over list. F430's are going for anywhere from $50k-$100K over list. CGT's can be bought for at least $75K under sticker. As a matter of fact at most Ferrari dealers, if you are not a customer of theirs you cant even buy a new Ferrari as they are already sold and there is a waiting list.
And do you really believe that 'being a Porsche it will hold up better than any other supercar', does that include the Enzo......?
You can say what you want about Ferrari but I dont think you can compare Porsche to Ferrari when it comes to resale.
Are you serious about the F430.....? Ferrari F430 coupes and spiders are bringing way way over list. F430's are going for anywhere from $50k-$100K over list. CGT's can be bought for at least $75K under sticker. As a matter of fact at most Ferrari dealers, if you are not a customer of theirs you cant even buy a new Ferrari as they are already sold and there is a waiting list.
And do you really believe that 'being a Porsche it will hold up better than any other supercar', does that include the Enzo......?
You can say what you want about Ferrari but I dont think you can compare Porsche to Ferrari when it comes to resale.
Last edited by jay72; 06-25-2006 at 12:48 PM.
06-25-2006, 06:22 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by jay72
"being a porsche, i think they will hold up better than any other supercar and everyday exotics also, such as f430"
Are you serious about the F430.....? Ferrari F430 coupes and spiders are bringing way way over list. F430's are going for anywhere from $50k-$100K over list. CGT's can be bought for at least $75K under sticker. As a matter of fact at most Ferrari dealers, if you are not a customer of theirs you cant even buy a new Ferrari as they are already sold and there is a waiting list.
And do you really believe that 'being a Porsche it will hold up better than any other supercar', does that include the Enzo......?
You can say what you want about Ferrari but I dont think you can compare Porsche to Ferrari when it comes to resale.
Are you serious about the F430.....? Ferrari F430 coupes and spiders are bringing way way over list. F430's are going for anywhere from $50k-$100K over list. CGT's can be bought for at least $75K under sticker. As a matter of fact at most Ferrari dealers, if you are not a customer of theirs you cant even buy a new Ferrari as they are already sold and there is a waiting list.
And do you really believe that 'being a Porsche it will hold up better than any other supercar', does that include the Enzo......?
You can say what you want about Ferrari but I dont think you can compare Porsche to Ferrari when it comes to resale.
he is comparing the cgt specifically.
the f430 is ferrari's current entry level car and is doing well on resale.
as soon as the replacement entry level model ferrari comes out it's resale will plummet.
the f430 premiums have already started to drop.
the f430 can't touch the performance of a cgt and will be produced in far higher numbers.
in the long term the cgt will out perform the f430 in terms of resale.
the enzo's resale has been on a downward trend.
the only reason the enzo will out perform the cgt in long term resale is because only 400 were produced versus more than 1270 for the cgt.
if porsche would have only produced 400 cgt's, you would not be able to touch one for the enzo's current market price.
jeff
06-25-2006, 08:48 PM
#20
Nobody is saying the f430 can touch the CGT in perfromance. Everything thing else you say is an assumption. When you say 'plummet" you are still talking about big premiums over list coming down. The Modena was the predessor to the f430, I would not say that the Modena is plummeting when the f430 was introduced. The f50 is STILL selling for over what the list was. The Enzos resale is on a downward trend. Again you are still talking about a major premium over list. Do you really believe that you will be able to pick up an Enzo for anywhere near its list price? If you look at any auction (RM. Barrett-Jackson, Christies) you will see how the Ferrari supercars have held their value and appreciated over time when compared to their original msrp price. Ferrari produced alot more f40's than Porsche did 959. Have you checked the prices of F40's recently?
06-25-2006, 10:29 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by jay72
Everything thing else you say is an assumption
- he was comparing resale of the cgt and not porsche in general
- the f430 is ferrari's current entry level car and is doing well on resale
- the f430 premiums have already started to drop
- the f430 will be produced in far higher numbers
- the enzo's resale has been on a downward trend
- 400 enzo's were produced versus more than 1270 for the cgt
i'll admit the rest is my opinion, but the above is not assumption as you contend.
Originally Posted by jay72
When you say 'plummet" you are still talking about big premiums over list coming down.
what someone paid originally versus what it can bring on resale.
resale has no relationship to msrp, premiums paid over, or discounts paid under msrp.
Originally Posted by jay72
The f50 is STILL selling for over what the list was
if people paid premiums over msrp back then and today the car only brings 1995-1997 msrp,
that would represent quite a drop in value.
even if they were lucky enough to get it at yesteryears msrp this would still represent quite a loss in value.
Originally Posted by jay72
The Enzos resale is on a downward trend. Again you are still talking about a major premium over list.
the current owners, that were original buyers at yesteryears msrp, could still possibly be made whole again if they were to sell now.
Originally Posted by jay72
Do you really believe that you will be able to pick up an Enzo for anywhere near its list price?
Originally Posted by jay72
Ferrari produced alot more f40's than Porsche did 959. Have you checked the prices of F40's recently?
i know they produced about 1315 f40's which is close in number to the cgt.
my hope is that the cgt will perform as well on long term resale as the f40.
jeff
06-26-2006, 01:41 AM
#22
What about the time, value of money and opportunity costs for the people who paid full price or close to it for the CGT?
It is a known fact and a touchy topic for dealers who are sitting with CGT's that Porsche produced too many and or set the msrp too high. I have heard this from salesman at two major Porsche dealerships.
When have you ever seen a Porsche that was made in the numbers of a CGT take such a hit off of msrp and then come back in the long term? When were you ever able to buy a new Ferrari at well below dealers msrp? When have you ever seen a supercar of any make that was made in the numbers as the CGT, where there is so many on the market and dealers are still sitting with them almost two years later "hold up in the long term better than any other supercar"...
I think the current prices of the CGT suggest that maybe Porsche made too many and there isnt enough buyers at the list price.
I am talking about resell based on "what someone paid origanally and what they can later get for the car" or resell prices as compared to msrp.
It is quite obvious that if somebody pays a big premium over msrp chances are they are not going to do well in the long term. I am refering to msrp.
None of the Ferraris mentioned above fell % wise off of MSRP as did the CGT. They went way up on the secondary market and some are still above what their msrp was. With the amount of CGT's made and the amount that are still unspoken for and the prices at which they are being offered currently and the lower prices of the ones with even a small amount of miles on them. It is far fetched to say now that 'being a Porsche it will hold up better than any other supercar"
The original post that I responded said that the CGT will hold up better than all other supercars, that would include the Enzo and F430(everyday exotic).
If you paid MSRP for a CGT, an Enzo and a f430. Do you really think that you will do better financially in the long term paying msrp for a CGT?
For anybody to say that the Carrera Gt will hold up better than an Enzo is ridiculous.
I have nothing against the CGT and I WILL own one soon. I prefer the CGT over any Ferrari. My original post was pointing out that it is ridiculous to say that the CGT will "hold up better than any other supercar".
It is a known fact and a touchy topic for dealers who are sitting with CGT's that Porsche produced too many and or set the msrp too high. I have heard this from salesman at two major Porsche dealerships.
When have you ever seen a Porsche that was made in the numbers of a CGT take such a hit off of msrp and then come back in the long term? When were you ever able to buy a new Ferrari at well below dealers msrp? When have you ever seen a supercar of any make that was made in the numbers as the CGT, where there is so many on the market and dealers are still sitting with them almost two years later "hold up in the long term better than any other supercar"...
I think the current prices of the CGT suggest that maybe Porsche made too many and there isnt enough buyers at the list price.
I am talking about resell based on "what someone paid origanally and what they can later get for the car" or resell prices as compared to msrp.
It is quite obvious that if somebody pays a big premium over msrp chances are they are not going to do well in the long term. I am refering to msrp.
None of the Ferraris mentioned above fell % wise off of MSRP as did the CGT. They went way up on the secondary market and some are still above what their msrp was. With the amount of CGT's made and the amount that are still unspoken for and the prices at which they are being offered currently and the lower prices of the ones with even a small amount of miles on them. It is far fetched to say now that 'being a Porsche it will hold up better than any other supercar"
The original post that I responded said that the CGT will hold up better than all other supercars, that would include the Enzo and F430(everyday exotic).
If you paid MSRP for a CGT, an Enzo and a f430. Do you really think that you will do better financially in the long term paying msrp for a CGT?
For anybody to say that the Carrera Gt will hold up better than an Enzo is ridiculous.
I have nothing against the CGT and I WILL own one soon. I prefer the CGT over any Ferrari. My original post was pointing out that it is ridiculous to say that the CGT will "hold up better than any other supercar".
Last edited by jay72; 06-26-2006 at 02:22 AM.
06-26-2006, 02:55 AM
#23
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by jay72
What about the time, value of money and opportunity costs for the people who paid full price or close to it for the CGT?
It is a known fact and a touchy topic for dealers who are sitting with CGT's that Porsche produced too many and or set the msrp too high. I have heard this from salesman at two major Porsche dealerships.
i know that cgt's were over produced and are selling at big discounts to msrp.
When have you ever seen a Porsche that was made in the numbers of a CGT take such a hit off of msrp and then come back in the long term?
huh? i'm not sure there was a porsche made in the same numbers of the cgt?
and then you further qualify the question to include taking a hit off msrp?
this is just a silly question!
When have you ever seen a supercar of any make that was made in the numbers as the CGT, where there is so many on the market and dealers are still sitting with them almost two years later "hold up in the long term better than any other supercar"...
again, i know the cgt was over produced.
but again, there has never been a super car made in those numbers in that short period of time to make a comparison!
f40's were produced over a 6 year period.
i never posted anything about the cgt holding up in the long term better than any other supercar???
I think the current prices of the CGT suggest that maybe Porsche made too many and there isnt enough buyers at the list price.
again, i agree they were over produced.
the market price being what it is makes that rather obvious.
I am talking about resell based on "what someone paid origanally and what they can later get for the car" or resell prices as compared to msrp.
It is quite obvious that if somebody pays a big premium over msrp chances are they are not going to do well in the longterm. I am refering to msrp.
None of the cars mentioned above fell % wise off of MSRP as did the CGT.
again, there are no cars that were made in that volume for that high of price for comparison, except the f40 that was produced over a six year period.
With the amount of CGT's made and the amount that are still unspoken for and the prices at which they are being offered currently and the lower prices that of ones with even a small amount of miles on them. It is far fetched to say now that 'being a Porsche it will hold up better than any other supercar"
again, i did not post that statement!
The original post that I responed said that the CGT will hold up better than all other supercars, that would include the Enzo and F430.
i don't believe most people would consider the f430 a "supercar"
If you paid MSRP for a CGT, an Enzo and a f430. Do you really think that you will do better in the long term paying msrp for a CGT?
For anybody to say that the Carrera Gt will hold up better than an Enzo is ridiculous.
again, i never posted that statement!
And percentage wise, the person paying msrp for a f430 should do better in the long term than the person paying msrp for a CGT.
an assumption on your part
I have nothing against the CGT and I WILL own one soon. I prefer the CGT over any Ferrari. My original post was pointing out that it is ridiculous to say that the CGT will "hold up better than any other supercar".
It is a known fact and a touchy topic for dealers who are sitting with CGT's that Porsche produced too many and or set the msrp too high. I have heard this from salesman at two major Porsche dealerships.
i know that cgt's were over produced and are selling at big discounts to msrp.
When have you ever seen a Porsche that was made in the numbers of a CGT take such a hit off of msrp and then come back in the long term?
huh? i'm not sure there was a porsche made in the same numbers of the cgt?
and then you further qualify the question to include taking a hit off msrp?
this is just a silly question!
When have you ever seen a supercar of any make that was made in the numbers as the CGT, where there is so many on the market and dealers are still sitting with them almost two years later "hold up in the long term better than any other supercar"...
again, i know the cgt was over produced.
but again, there has never been a super car made in those numbers in that short period of time to make a comparison!
f40's were produced over a 6 year period.
i never posted anything about the cgt holding up in the long term better than any other supercar???
I think the current prices of the CGT suggest that maybe Porsche made too many and there isnt enough buyers at the list price.
again, i agree they were over produced.
the market price being what it is makes that rather obvious.
I am talking about resell based on "what someone paid origanally and what they can later get for the car" or resell prices as compared to msrp.
It is quite obvious that if somebody pays a big premium over msrp chances are they are not going to do well in the longterm. I am refering to msrp.
None of the cars mentioned above fell % wise off of MSRP as did the CGT.
again, there are no cars that were made in that volume for that high of price for comparison, except the f40 that was produced over a six year period.
With the amount of CGT's made and the amount that are still unspoken for and the prices at which they are being offered currently and the lower prices that of ones with even a small amount of miles on them. It is far fetched to say now that 'being a Porsche it will hold up better than any other supercar"
again, i did not post that statement!
The original post that I responed said that the CGT will hold up better than all other supercars, that would include the Enzo and F430.
i don't believe most people would consider the f430 a "supercar"
If you paid MSRP for a CGT, an Enzo and a f430. Do you really think that you will do better in the long term paying msrp for a CGT?
For anybody to say that the Carrera Gt will hold up better than an Enzo is ridiculous.
again, i never posted that statement!
And percentage wise, the person paying msrp for a f430 should do better in the long term than the person paying msrp for a CGT.
an assumption on your part
I have nothing against the CGT and I WILL own one soon. I prefer the CGT over any Ferrari. My original post was pointing out that it is ridiculous to say that the CGT will "hold up better than any other supercar".
it is also only your opinion that it's resale will hold up long term better than the cgt.
but since you want to purchase a cgt, you can't be that bad of a guy!
best,
jeff
06-26-2006, 06:59 AM
#24
Racer
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When the original poster stated that the CGT will hold up better than an other supercar I took that to mean mechanically.
Porsche overbuilds their cars and from my experiences with Ferrari's they don't.
I also believe the CGT will hold up better mechanically than any other supercar.
Porsche overbuilds their cars and from my experiences with Ferrari's they don't.
I also believe the CGT will hold up better mechanically than any other supercar.
06-26-2006, 03:07 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by jay72
I agree 100% that the CGT will hold up better mechanically than any other supercar ever.
06-26-2006, 10:25 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
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when i previously stated that the cgt will hold up better than any other supercar, i meant in terms of reliability, and NOT resale value...thats my bad, as i wrote the sentence poorly...i think the ferrari f50, enzo and mclaren f1 will hold up better in the long run in terms of price........ 
06-27-2006, 01:31 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by jay72
I agree 100% that the CGT will hold up better mechanically than any other supercar ever.
06-27-2006, 02:06 AM
#30
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by MANUAL
Until the CGT proves to be better than the NSX, I disagree.
define supercar?
we'll have to come to some agreement on that before we can compare them!
when the nsx came out i think it was bestowed supercar status,
but it hasn't exactly kept up with the competition has it?
seriously, i don't know, i'm asking!
last one i saw looked like a big prelude!
jeff