PogueMoHone

AS

You're a breath of fresh air, know what you're talking about and I'm confident that your logic and rationale will help save a few lives.

I love the quote:

"....than someone who has owned cats and thinks he's ready for a tiger"

My hat is off to you, and you express, very well, the sentiments and fears I have about this car.

Only an idiot would ignore your insights and perspective.

Porsh-uh

Colm, that's just it though... in you view (or at least in your statement), the responsibility is on the car. Most people that are arguing to your contrary are saying the responsibility is on the driver. It's a similar argument to gun-control. The car is not dangerous until someone gets in it that isn't "ready for the tiger."

PogueMoHone

Where in Heaven's name do you interpret from my statement that the responsibility is on the car?. I know the car fars exceeds my abilities. The car is so fast and capable that it can "sucker" the unsuspecting (inexperienced) or egotistical driver trying to prove something.

The last time I checked a car was an inanimate object! Responsibility always rest with the driver.

My statement recognizes that AS is very experienced, as demonstrated by his analysis. He has a lucid understanding of the physics involved and the practical experience to back up the theory.

In my view, AS posts should be required reading for all CGT owners....resist temptation until you have "learned' the car. Learning the car requires professional instruction and practice, practice, practice.

Porsh-uh

That statement.

PogueMoHone

I think you mis-read the post, or made too big an assumption.

Porsh-uh

You clearly state you are afraid of the car. No assumption necessary.

W8MM

I own a CGT and have driven two different CGTs on a race track. I, also, understand vehicular physics and have been a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers for more than 20 years. Although I'm not a race driver, I have thousands of quick laps in quick cars under my belt at various race tracks. It's my carefully considered opinion that AS overstates his case by a large margin.

One can only specualte as to why.

If one is a 911 pilot of some experience, there will be a few adjustments necessary in habitual reactions to various miscalculations, but that's all. Fortunately for me, I have both road and track experience in a 914/6 with fewer than 10 pounds to motivate for each horsepower. The CGT is little different in maneuvering style, although the CGT is vastly superior in capability and has much better manners under stress than my 914/6.

The only aspect that I had to get used to is that the CGT does EXACTLY what it is told to do, IMMEDIATELY. Hurley Haywood refers to this behavior as "very sensitive steering". This is in contrast to cars that do ALMOST what they are told through the controls and they do it only when they get around to it. Over controlling a CGT is possible if one is not used to a car that does what it is told.

Does this characteristic require the verdict of the CGT being a widow maker?

I think not. Most car nuts would consider this condition ideal.

Adequate respect and a little seat time make the CGT very accessable and a dream to drive. Maybe AS should try it, and therefore minimize the need to speculate.

1AS

Mike,
Love to. AS

PogueMoHone

I think AS is using "poetic license" to make a point, and therefore his overstatement is understandable.

The "poetic justice" for someone who underestimates this car is very cruel and all AS has really said is great care and experience is required to "push" it (as I interpret it). Starting with warm tires!

I think everyone agrees it's a fantastic car, but even rarer than the car are those with the real skills to take advantage of it's true potential (W8MM you seem to fit in this category).

However there appears to be no shortage of imagination from those who think they can drive it, and having driven it on the track I can tell you if I buy one I will get profesional instruction in it, before pushing it.

"Adequate respect and a little seat time make the CGT very accessable and a dream to drive."

This is very true, on regular roads and moderate speeds, but won't work for race track speeds where one is starting to push the car..hence the desire for professional instruction and practice, practice, practice.

MANUAL

fayence,

When you say you slightly lifted off the gas, do you mean you:

1) reduced the gas slightly but were still were giving it some gas?

OR

2) reduced the gas slightly to where you were giving NO gas at all?

fixnprsh

WOW, what a train wreck of a thread.................I think it boils down to alot of people who can afford to buy these cars, buy one because they can and its a symbol of their success and not that they are entusiasts. Which means that a large part of them dont have the talent to drive it at more than 50%, then when they try, they destroy the car, and themselves.

Its not about "who can afford one" and who can't. Don't be such a ***** to think the people, like me, who blast rich ****** who can't handle their toys, are jealous of you because we can't afford one, or would even want one if we could. I could think of or build a helluva lot of cars for a lot less that would hand a CGT its a$$ on a plate, sure it wouldn't be made of carbon fiber and have a V10, but to some people, image isn't everything.

I'm not painting all CGT or Ferrari owners with the same brush, I have ridden with owners of both that really know how to drive though. I'm talking about overnight millionare's or other rich people that have to have one because their neighbor got an Enzo.

BTW I was told when I was at Porsche training once, that over 50% of GT2's that have been registered had been totaled, I'm sure the CGT will catch up shortly.

Greg A

A lot of people have claimed it was 25%, but no one has ever provided anything remotely resembling proof of this statistic.

Greg A

edpurplett

I'm not sure I have a position here... but I have some opinions...

I think there is culpability on both driver and dealer/car co... this is where I'm coming from..

I have owned a ton of 'stock' and totally wild street cars...and driven a lot more vars than owned extensively...

When I'm in a stock car I rarely have to worry about traction under most conditions (take straight line for example) except under obviosly bad conditions.. Vettes, M3's, most porsches almost every benz... etc.. or when they go sideways it is because I clearly pushed the car... and I tend to be prepared for it... and to be honest its sometinmes tough to make these cars dangerous

Enter the world of Ubercar.... the average driver SHOULD know about traction issues but many, as expressed here.... have never driven a wild car... and IMHO they really dont know about traction loss the way they should.. mos tof the cars they have driven CAn step out the car in a corner.. but they dont push them frequelktly (I'm not talking about the tracj driver), and htey have proabably never driven a car that will jsut plain lose traction and go sideways in a straight line at 80 MPH...

My 993 TT 2wd has 600 HP and weighs 3000 lbs... I can't tell you how many times it loses traction in third gear if conditions arent perfect and even then.. and if i didn;t gingerly counter the rear and/or slightly decrease throttle i'd of been in teh weeds or worse yet in someone elses lane...

So I think many cars should possibly have a forced lesson... but you know the seasoned drivers arent going to need it, r take it, and tehn egos will get in teh way and others wont do it.. that should... A lambo Murc.. etc. has almost the same issue, though seesm to lose tractoin less easily than the CGT... etc.. so there are a lot of cars that qualify...

.. my point is few understand what it's like to drive big HP cars and their quirky handling traits that may be SOLELY power related... and unitl you do you can warn all you want and not be heeded...

.. so I dont;l have a solution, but the average driver thinks they can mash the throttle without recourse.. particularily in a straight line(and maybe they should be able to, or NOT be able to buy a car that can do it without some form of validation)??.... and only people who care, or have experienced know better.. but how do we fix this .. dunno...

e

BuddyG

Once again a Carrera GT thread has become the same old thing over and over again.

Nick is trying to convince the world the Carrera GT is evil and no one should own or drive one and the rest of us would love to own and drive one. Why oh why does Nick continually spew forth the same crap over and over again.

NICK NO ONE CARES THAT YOU ARE TOO SCARED TO OWN OR DRIVE A CARRERA GT! SO BUG OFF!

Sorry I had to vent!