Nick

I just learned of the identity of the owner of the black CGT which was totalled last weekend in Orange County. He is an experienced and excellent driver. He used to own a GT2 and to my knowlege drove it without incident. The CGT is just a different car.

BTW, fortunately neither he or his passenger were seriously injured.

Ryan in SD

Indeed the GT2 was never wrecked. And he is a skilled driver.

1AS

So, if you can drive a GT2 but crash a CGT, what does that say? AS

pcar964

He was probably pushing it really hard, and didn't leave much room for error. We're all guilty of that from time to time I don't think it means the CGT is somehow unsafe though. I haven't driven a CGT, but I would wager a guess that most track-prepared 930s are more difficult to drive at the limit. The CGT is much faster than most other street cars, but compared to a racecar it's not any faster.

The typical owner of these cars do many track events, which means more chance of an incident.

Ryan in SD

and another side order of speculation

He wasn't going all out, thats a fact. I dont want to say any more about it because I dont have all the facts but I assure you he wasnt doing anything crazy.

1958 Convertible D

Well, it clearly means that the Carrera GT is not the right car for you. Or Nick. I happen to own one. And I love it.

Everything else is just speculation, envy, or bull****.

W8MM

I couldn't agree more

This is the most insightful statement on this thread

pcar964

My point was not to say "this is what happened" - I'm trying to make the point that the CAR is not to blame. that's all.

e6tme

Here's an idea...
Rather than try and figure out what % of CGTs have been crashed and whether it was the cars fault, let's determine what % of threads in the CGT forum can go three pages without degenerating into the same incessant discussion.

DMin

ROFL!

DrJupeman

Most of us just have a case of CGT envy.

I was happy last week when I simply got to sit in one, push in the pedals, and work it through the gears. I was like a kid.

For those who own them, be thankful!

Barry A. Waters

Folks,

Why confine this to the CGT? The following psuedo formula has ALWAYS been a recipe for disaster:

Money > (Ability < Common Sense) = OH NO!!!

I'm sure I could find some really disgusting 'aftermath photos' of a 924 if I looked. Look at the distance, reportedly 1~2 km before impact. Man, I could do better than that and I don't have credability 1 to hoot about! It would have taken me 10 minutes just to get into the drivers seat for fear of damaging the paint/leather. I would have certainly NOT tried to get up to the speed necessary to do THAT kind of damage, regardless of the circumstances surrounding the crash.

We'll, I guess a fighter COULD crash land on me with a full bomb load while I was doing 60MPH but I fold on that one... ;-)

Barry

MANUAL

Hello AS,

1) The car has a TC (traction control) system which includes automatic brake differential, traction control, and engine drag torque control. How is ASC different or better than TC? By ASC, did you mean to say the car needs PSM?

2) The car has 13.2 inch wide rear street tires. You mentioned in the past that your Can-Am car had 17 inch wide slicks and now you think 15 inch slicks would work for the CGT. Would 13.2 inch wide slicks also work?

3) Would the pit crew be allowed 10-20 minutes (hopefully it's still raining after the stop) minimum and a hydraulic lift for a rubber change since a Porsche certified technician usually takes 40-60 minutes?

1AS

Hello Manual,
I don't mean to strike a contentious note, so let me apologize if my remarks offended.
By ASC, I meant skid control, which Porsche calls PSM. Traction control, at least in my experience, kills rear wheel power, but doesn't kill a skid. Traction control allows aceleration under varying grip conditions, but I didn't think includes diagonal braking when slip angles are detected. I don't think it can accomplish much when throttle is lifted. Please correct any misimpression (seriously). All cars unload the rear when the throttle is lifted, but 600 hp cars do it more, and mid-engined cars tend to rotate quickly in that scenario. Something that assists the unsuspecting, untrained, or unskilled driver would be of benefit, I think. If it's there and I didn't know it, I apologize.

While I am aware of the vast differences in the cars, the circumstance seems reminiscent of the introduction of the Audi tt in Germany. After a number of high speed accidents that included the death of a reigning rally champ (from memory-so if I miss a detail please forgive), Audi recalled all tt's and added aerodynamic mods and skid control. If anyone has more accurate renditions, please correct me. I'm not implying a tt is like a CGT. The parallel is that drivers got into serious trouble.
Similiarly, during press testing of the Smart, an avoidance maneuver resulted in a rollover. Subsequently, intro was delayed and ASC added. The Enzo has the feature. I thought the CGT didn't.

It seems that some CGT drivers are getting caught in some maneuver that results in loss of control. It's simplest to blame the driver (and logical, since nobody makes you drive fast). I suspect some drivers too easily entered their danger zone in the CGT. Again, I haven't driven one, and I'd like to, so I may be disqualified from having a valid opinion.

Re Slicks: I got out of vintage Can Am in the mid 90's, and at that time, the 17 and 18 inch rear slicks were nearly unavailable. I think 15 inchers still are, though none of my current race cars use rubber that wide, so I haven't checked recently. The point of slicks is that, when hot, the grip levels go way up, so it's easier to drive out of trouble. I also felt that they are more progressive, but again that was subjective. I don't know what road temperatures were like when various CGT's crashed, and I'm not sure most drivers are cognizant of the vastly different traction levels at cold vs. hot temps. I'm not sure of the wear rating of the CGT standard tire, but I'm guessing its significantly harder than a dedicated slick. Lastly, you have to drive a car pretty hard to heat the tires, so grip levels after moderate driving may not be the same. Dedicated race tires exaggerate this finding compared to street rubber. Perhaps I could have been more explicit.
If the question is the difference between 13.2 inches and 15 inches, there is a significant difference. Really wide tires are more difficult on public roads due to surface irregularities, and this isnot as obvious on track. Surface smoothness, pitch (crown), temp, pressure, absence of debris all effect grip. But, my observation with ultra-high power is that wider tires make control easier. Drivers get in trouble when the tires lose grip, so anything that increases it is a plus. The downside of the ultra-wide rear is that when you drop one off the edge of the pavement, it really uspets the car.

Re pit stop, my meager attempt at humor flopped. Slicks actually work reasonably well in light rain. When the pavement gets shiny, they don't. I stopped keeping dedicated rain rubber, since I no longer race if its that wet. How is the CGT in rain? AS

Rock

if i were the owner id be pissed at the person who borrowed it